Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
20mph speed limit campaign for Haringey
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 2o21fske2ygv0 on
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This is really not needed at all.
Pretty much all of the residential streets are 20mph already. For main routes through it is a difficult speed to drive at and increases pollution due to inefficiencies of gearing.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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"A difficult speed to drive at"? Can you just read that back to yourself keeping in mind how a car works (you know, petrol goes into the engine when you press your foot down on the accelerator)? The evidence from accidents is that a reduction in speed reduces the number of deaths and seriousness of injuries. As you've said, most streets are 20mph already, let's keep it simple for the drivers - 20mph everywhere in London.
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Yep it is a difficult speed to drive at. Most transmissions are geared for 36mph as the optimum for efficiency. As there is a global market out there and the general speed in urban areas is 40kph manufacturers target this.
I have another solution to solve death and injury on the roads in Haringey. There are pedestrian crossings, installed for use by um... pedestrians. so why do imbeciles wander haplessly across the road (Green Lanes a particular case in point)?
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Ah I see, you think that cars have first right to the road when in fact that is a fallacy perpetuated by drivers and manufacturers of motor vehicles. If you take a few moments to look through the history section of the website you will see pictures of imbeclies pedestrians on the road with not a care in the world. It's nice.
Just take your foot off of the accelerator!
I think your solution is commonly referred to as "blame the victim".
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Permalink Reply by Gordon Curtis on
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@John McMullan "with not a care in the world" - except the mountains of horse-sh*t, London-smog and life-expectancy of 40 - idyllic times for sure.
Grrrr modern life eh? ;)
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Permalink Reply by Robyn on
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John, there is no issue with people sharing the road space when they are all cautious and considerate of each other.
The problem is speeding cars driven by drivers who are distracted, coupled with pedestrians who don't look before they step out, along with cyclists who are zipping in and out of traffic not realising they aren't as quick as they think they are, plus scooters and bikes filtering too fast up the outside of traffic.
No one is perfect and no one is blameless and we all have stupid moments. 20mph or 30mph isnt going to change that - particularly if it isn't enforced.
A mix of speeds, which is the actual result in Islington, is far more dangerous as it makes traffic less predictable.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Sadly many of those "imbeciles" are likely to be children and young people between the age of 11 and 16. Yep, kids can be dumb but the punishment for that shouldn't be injury or death over the bonnet of a car.
"Road traffic accidents are the most significant cause of unintentional injury for young people. In 2010, just under 20,000 0-15 year-olds were injured on roads in Great Britain...Young people living in the most deprived areas are three times more likely to be hit by a car than those in the least deprived wards" >perhaps because the kids in the less deprived areas are in the cars?
Children and teens are not always the best judges of what is the best thing to do. That's why you as the adult driving tonnes of steel at speed must think for them and slow down in urban areas. You will not be surprised that the majority of attendance rates to A&E are for wards in the east of the borough; although Harringay isn't the highest, it is still unacceptably high. Even if not all of these are road traffic accidents, I'm sure you'd agree that even a few is too high when "Evidence shows that many accidents are preventable and the impact of those that do occur can be reduced...A local road safety partnership or equivalent should be responsible for developing policies and strategies relating to road safety measures. They should promote and ensure the enforcement of speed reduction programmes and evaluate local road safety interventions."
All figures taken from Haringey website
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Sadly it is often parents I see dragging their children willy nilly across the road, instead of using the crossings that are provided. Hardly sets a good example.
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I do like the 'I blame the parents' argument. I am obsessional about the roads and teaching my kids to cross safely. Yet the other day, my 6 yo dashed across a Ladder road before anyone could stop him. Luckily, the driver wasn't texting, enjoying his lovely gear box, changing his music, eating a sandwich and was going slowly enough to stop safely. My kid cried for an hour afterwards from the telling off he got from me and his Dad. Yet can I be sure he won't do it again? When a small boy is on a mission, sometimes nothing but that mission is in his mind.
Then we have teenagers who are the biggest victims of road accidents, let's consider the next time you see one that although they may have had every tufty club magazine going they still might be as "dumb" as we all were as teens and be on their phones, listening to their music or simply larking about and slow down.
Pedestrians/parents have responsibility for teaching their kids that many car drivers live in a bubble of phones, food, music etc and that they should avoid stepping in front of them but in the end we don't live in an ideal world and, as a 6yo or a 16yo is going to lose any fight with a car, you the ADULT driver need to acknowledge your responsibility to drive slowly and not kill them.
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Thanks Anne. Hopefully, that piece of evidence will stay at the forefront of people's minds when they drive around built up areas.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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So I ease off the pedal, then I have to drop down a gear. It is an issue because that increases my petrol consumption. I am very pro 20mph as default speed, cos that is fast enough on most roads, they are only a few metres long before you have to do something other than cruise, but increase it on main roads where there is no/little pedestrian presence.
At one of the LBH forums (I think) there was a bod from TFL or LBH Traffic or something who was talking about the 20 limit. When the question of enforcement came up, he said that it will start to enforce itself as some drivers stick to 20 - they will hold up slow down everything behind them. But Robyn's account of driving in Islington, below, indicates that this may take a while to bed in.
Whatever else, They had better make the newly two-way Tottenham High Rd 20mph, as that has masses of people on it. BTW be warned to stay well clear of here on the weekend of 29th+30th June as that's when they will switch the bit of the High Rd that's finished, to two-way driving and it will be utter chaos perfectly managed but still worth avoiding.
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I think cars and motorcyclists do have the first right to the road because they pay for them. Pedestrians next because they need to cross them. And then cyclists, who really have no rights whatsoever until they start obeying the Highway Code, are required to have a licence and have their bikes registered.
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