Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Basement Conversions-Why Won't our Council Crack Down onThem!?
Does anyone know why Haringey council is refusing to crack down on basement conversions? Anyone have nightmare basement conversions in Haringey to share?
One of my neighbours in Crouch End did a basement conversion last year. The whole project lasted about a year and was a complete nightmare for those who lived on the area: builders working as early as 7am and as late as 10pm (which the council did nothing to discourage), builders urinating in the street and essentially treating the whole street like a building site, horrible, large cracks appearing on internal walls of neighbouring homes and a few homes in the area even reported internal doors sticking (my poor neighbour got stuck in her bathroom!). I myself have been left thousands of pounds out of pocket having to hire contractors to fix the cracks in my walls, and that was with a Party Wall Agreement (which I had to instigate as my neighbour was under no legal obligation to get one and was perfectly prepared to start the building works without one). That's not even to mention the time and energy I wasted having to get my whole flat re-plastered and re-decorated and the stress and anxiety the building works caused me. Like I said, nightmare.
Anyway, I spoke to the Head of Planning for Haringey about my experience and he was completely uninterested. He told me that councils were unable to create any regulations when it came to basement conversions, that such works did not require planning permission, and that there were no plans for Haringey Council to change this. However, other councils, such as Camden, are starting to crack down on basement conversions. Just today, Westminster introduced a "Basement Tax. So, why can't our council do anything to better regulate these works? "Not only are these building works hugely disruptive, they are also dangerous to neighbouring homes: I spoke to a surveyor who told me that this area of London in particular is prone to subsidence and these basement conversions can cause major structural damage to neighbouring homes.
That said, if any of your neighbours are planning a basement conversion, be very very worried!
Tags for Forum Posts: basement conversion, cellar conversion
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mavic Starfish on
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No experience regrdIng basement conversions, but we did get cracks appearing after next door had a loft conversion, unfortunately it was a year later. On the other hand my experience with Haringey Planning regarding the HMO application (same place) was not helpful, so I can empathise
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Permalink Reply by Ella B. on
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Hi Mavic. Did your neighbours compensate you for the cracks? Sorry about your experience - I'm convinced we have the worst Planning Department in the world.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I'd imagine that even if planning permission is not required, these works will still be covered by buildings regulations. I had to learn a little about them due to remedial work we had done on a chimney breast in a house in Enfield. Even in that case a party wall was required. A quick Google suggests that basement conversions are very much within the scope of the Party Wall Act. Were you advised otherwise?
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Hi Hugh. The problem is you can't get a Party Wall Award retrospectively. You can literally go on holiday for 3 weeks, come back home to find your neighbour doing a basement conversion, and it will be too late to get an Award, meaning that your neighbour is not liable for any damage to your home. Plus, in my case, the Party Wall Award didn't protect from all damage - I still ended up out of pocket. And the Award doesn't protect you against the inconvenience and stress a basement conversion often brings - unless you've lived next door to a neighbour undergoing a basement conversion, it's very difficult to comprehend how truly disruptive they can be. For example, my neighbour's bathroom door kept sticking due to the building works which meant she would keep getting stuck in her bathroom. This meant she was unable to have visitors over (what was she going to tell them? Yes, come over but if you use my bathroom you have to keep the door open) and she had to keep the bathroom door open at all times, even when she was showering. In my case, I had my Mother and Aunt visiting from overseas but they had to stay in a hotel because the noise was too loud - their trip was ruined and I didn't get to spend as much time with them as them as I wanted.
Finally, the Award doesn't take into account long-term damage to neighbouring homes. For example, it will not cover for differential settlement and subsidence that may arise due to a neighbour's basement dig (the surveyor I spoke to said this is highly likely with these types of building work).
So - why is the council refusing to crack down on basement conversions? At the very least, why don't they require full planning permission?
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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In most cases a basement conversion doesn't need planning permission. In fact many works that once did require permission now no longer do as the government have extended permitted development rights.
The Westminster decision is an interesting one. They have either placed an article 4 direction on the entire borough or are chancing it. All it requires is someone with a bit of dosh (and Westminster isn't short of those) to challenge the decision in a judicial review for it to come tumbling down.
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Hi Michael. Yes, I don't think this will put an end to basement works but at least Westminster is doing something to try to regulate basement works. Our council could not care less!
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It sounds like you've done your homework! Nightmare! So you may already know that the following doesn't apply, but on a superfast Google I saw the following:
They will still have a duty of care under common law to put right any damage that their works cause.
The courts have taken a dim view of Building Owners that proceed with work without serving notice and go on to cause damage to a neighbour’s property. In one noteworthy case, known as Roadrunner Properties Limited v John Dean the judge made it clear that the Building Owner should not gain advantage by his failure to comply with the statutory requirements. In light of this he decided that the burden should be on the Building Owner to disprove a link between the damage and the work instead of the reverse which would be the normal position at common law.
So, I wonder if there is indeed a remedy, but it sounds like you'd have to go through a lawyer, and maybe the courts, to access it.
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Thanks Hugh. This makes me feel better. My surveyor told me I'm no longer allowed to seek compensation but it did seem odd to me that I wouldn't be able to take legal action if cracks appeared, say, a year or two after the building works ended. It will be a hassle to go through the courts, but I will have no choice if more cracks appear in the future. I wish they would put an end to these basement works!!
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My understanding (from being the one doing the building work) is that the person doing the work has to serve a Party Wall notice if the works are within a certain distance of shared walls. If you don't respond to it (e.g. because you're away for 3 weeks) then that automatically counts as a dissenting response, and a surveyor must draw up a Party Wall Award. You can appoint the surveyor or, if you still don't respond, the person doing the work can appoint one on your behalf, but either way they have to do it and they have to pay for it.
If the person doing the works tries to get around this by just not serving a Party Wall notice at all, then they are potentially on the hook for any existing damage to your home which could be argued afterwards to be due to the works carried out - without the award in place they have no evidence that this wasn't caused by their building works. This can be a real problem if they try to sell the property later.
When I did our building work I considered the Party Wall stuff to be there for my protection as much as my neighbour's - aside from the (real) pain and nominal expense of getting the Award drawn up, I can't understand why anyone doing works wouldn't want it in place!
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Hi Joss. The person doing the building work does not legally have to serve notice. But you're right, I don't know why anyone would start building works without a Party Wall Agreement. I assume my neighbour didn't serve us with notice because he didn't want anything holding up his project, and maybe he assumed our building insurance would pay for all damages? Who knows - we've never actually spoken to him. He bought the house, never spoke to us about his building plans, did months of disruptive building works, which caused damage to our homes and never bothered to apologize. Very selfish man.
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Hi Ella,
I'm a party wall surveyor and a member of fpws.
If you were served notices before your work started you would still be covered under the party wall act.
No matter if you consented or dissented to the original notice or if an award/agreement was made.
If a notice was served and then damage occurs at a later date and the 2 owners can not agree who is responsible for the repair then this is still deemed a dispute under the act and party wall surveyors will need to be appointed to resolve it by means of an Award.
If the damage has occurred due to the notifiable works then the surveyors will award damages so the repair can be carried out in full.
There is no time limit to the act.
Even if you consent to a notice, always get a schedule of condition done prior to works starting, then there can be no question as to what caused the damage.
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Thanks for your reply. I'm just a bit confused because my Party Wall Surveyor said I'm no longer allowed to seek compensation. I have been awarded compensation for the cracks that appeared during the building works but I will not be able to compensate for any cracks that appear now that the works have ended (they ended in January 2016). He says I have to assume that any cracks that now appear in my flat have nothing to do with the works next door (keeping in mind I have never had issues with cracks in my flat before). Why would my surveyor tell me that?
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