Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Tottenham High Road is beyond saving
Haringey Council is at it again. They are putting forward yet another consultation plan on the future of Tottenham High Road. The council have 'identified' parts of the moribund centre for 'investment', while completely ignoring the fact that for so long, many of their policies have caused so much damage to the wider area.
On top of a poorly maintained environment, restrictive parking zones, and poor planning controls, many traders have now suffered a double whammy with the recent riots that has seen many shops and stores on the brink of collapse and others have closed completely. They also have to put up with the stupid "I Love Tottenham" campaign, a cynical publicity stunt trumpeted in the council's "People" freesheet.
The so-called help the council given to traders is too little too late, at a time of an economic downturn in which more public-sector staff already serving one of the most jobless and deprived areas of the country are facing the sack. Football club Spurs' recent decision to stay at White Hart Lane may please the massive number of fast-food outlets who are dependent on them for most of their income, but beyond that there never will be anything to entice people to shop and spend time locally as private investment remains nonexistent. The wider area will continue to stagnate socially, while the few locals with money to spend will continue travelling to neighbouring shopping and cultural areas instead.
The just published report by government advisor Mary Portas into the future of the High Street argues that some of main shopping areas are beyond saving. I have long said that Tottenham High Road at the present time is beyond saving, and I believe Haringey Council should divert the resources from what is currently spent in this 'black hole' to support the borough's other main shopping areas, including of course, the vibrant Green Lanes.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Fowler on
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Neville wants to write off Tottenham High Road (and, by association, the communities around it) as "beyond saving". This sounds rather like the Thatcherite proposal of "managed decline" for Liverpool and other northern cities in the early 80s. Perhaps LibDem Neville has been spending too much time with his millionaire Tory chums. He certainly seems to have no concern for the people of Tottenham. But, hey, why bother with them, they are just poor, right? Not worth the trouble. And, unlike the wealthy poshies in Muswell Hill or Highgate, they're never going to vote LibDem anyway.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I very much doubt, Christopher, that Neville has "millionaire Tory chums". I also think it's unfair to assume he has no concern for the people of Tottenham. He and I are "people of Tottenham". Unless Neville has recently moved, he lives on a Council estate four streets from me and Zena.
But yes, I agree that his bleak headline and starting point - Tottenham High Road is beyond saving - takes us nowhere. We need analysis and possible choices and solutions — not doomsters and gloomsters. Labelling a street, a few schools, or a neighbourhood as failing, "stagnant" or a "black hole", is part of the problem.
But Neville is right to flag-up Mary Portas' Review. The pattern of retailing has changed fundamentally and so the issues she describes are real enough. And not just for us but for traditional High Street shopping areas in towns and cities across the country.
And abroad. My cousin - who lives in a small town outside Brussels - told us about the huge challenges for their small shops from the giant supermarkets.
Across this country I wonder how many "wealthy poshies" do their weekly shop at local independent traders? Or even consider a local bookshop instead of Amazon?
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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Local independent traders and local bookshops tend to be more expensive than the supermarkets and Amazon so logically it would be the wealthy poshies who could afford to shop there, not the poor.
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The wealthy poshies still shop at a supermarket, they just go to Waitrose because "it is that reassuring bit more expensive". They drive there in their Chelsea tractors, then drive home with stuff that they put in their gigantic double-door fridges. And if you think all local independent traders are more expensive than supermarkets, you should compare the prices for fresh fruit and vegetables at local greengrocers, in Green Lanes or Tottenham, with those in any of the supermarkets. And people from the wealthier bits of the borough - Highgate, Muswell Hill, Crouch End - wouldn't be seen dead shopping on Tottenham High Road.
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Have you read the Mary Portas Review, Christopher? The document itself, rather than the press reports? Just in case you haven't, it's downloadable here on her website.
If you have, I'd be interested in your views - and those of other people - not just about the broad sweep of Mary Portas' arguments, but the detailed points she makes. With the implications for lots of areas - not just Tottenham.
As you may know, Tottenham Hale is about 15 minutes from Westfield, Stratford. And yes, there are some local relatively poor, non-poshies who enjoy going there.
Having said this, there's another interesting phenomenon happening in the United States. Shopping malls may become obsolescent - with something like the return of the street. Have a look at this article from the Economist four years ago. And a blog from Seattle.
Given the recession these ideas may already be obsolescent as well. Although hardly as out-of-date, and lacking vision and imagination as Haringey's so-called regeneration plans. For several years these have had as their centrepieces an apparently bottomless public subsidy for: Hale Village; for Spurs; and for a "Cultural Quarter" at Tottenham Green.
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In this week's Hornsey Journal: Sainsbury's planned larger supermarket is praised by Spurs' Chairman Daniel Levy who said:
"We are delighted that Sainsbury’s will become the supermarket provider in the Northumberland Development Project. This will be one of the largest supermarkets of its kind in London and will help bring a greater vibrancy and attract new trade to the area."
And perhaps Mr Levy's PR delight will prove entirely accurate.
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Permalink Reply by Neville Collins on
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@ Christopher
For the record, as you know, I am a fully-paid up(and proud) member of the Lib Dems (and not as you claim, a Trotskyist). I don't always agree with what the government does and says, and I don't always treat many of Haringey's Labour group of councillors with contempt. What I was trying to point out in my original post that I felt that the council was wasting a lot of time spending yet more taxpayers' money into the Tottenham High Road black hole. I've made comments about this before, and I've got myself in hot water for it, not least with my colleagues. I've known Cllr Stanton for many years and I've always had time for him even though we disagree on many issues.
What I was trying to point out in my original post was that it wasn't worth trying to improve the High Road while the council continues to pursue policies which didn't reflect locals' priorities. When you compare Haringey's record in regeneration with the neighbouring boroughs of Camden, Hackney and Islington, three similar ones in terms of social demographics, we fare very badly indeed. High Road traders and communities need to put forward an alternative vision to the council's over what they want the badly-neglected shopping street to look like in the future... a vision which didn't include spending a lot of time thinking of more useless publicity stunts.
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So what do you want done with the High Road? All you've suggested so far is abandoning it to its fate. And exactly where is this alternative vision from local traders and communities? And what is the vision?
I didn't claim you were a Trot, just that the arguments you put forward sounded like the usual SWP line. And as to being proud of being a LibDem, but not agreeing with everything the government does, what policies of Clegg and Cameron do you agree with? The whole issue of the LibDems is pretty irrelevant anyway. Clegg will go down in history as the man who destroyed his own party as a national political force, in return for five years of the perks of cabinet office.
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Permalink Reply by Seema Chandwani on
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I feel the thinking needs to be more creative, we have some key attraction pullers in the area (Bruce Castle; Bernie Grants Arts Centre; the College and Spurs) more investment in the Castle can be made to make it applicable, its the home of the British Stamp, if properly thought through the Castle/Museum could be a location for school trips/stamp collectors etc. The arts centre is really picking up, the Riots play bought in a lot of external people in to the borough and like most venues around theatres that have pre-show dinners the link between local resturants and what the arts centre was doing had no connection. Youth businesses or local business start ups could be used, the building that was the Youth Offending service could make a nice set of internal retail units for local businesses... a lot of kids are producing their own music at home on CDs but no outlet to sell or their own fashion, plus more creative things like jewellery and cupcakes, but are stuck as they have no capital to move to the next stage
Tottenham needs to be a reason for people to visit that they get no where else, the Brixton Villiage model is a good one to explore (no it is not a village but thats another debate). Bruce Grove has one of the best butchers yet not many know about it, the marketing of local businesses should be supported
Closing the three council offices in the riot zone was a bad economical decision and I would rather that extra money is used to retain staff in the area as it costs less overall than to move them out. Bring back the Tottenham Carnival it was an amazing thing which bought a lot of footfall to the area and gave a community feel.
Parking restrictions and the lack of parking is killing the high road, so is the lack of control of the exterior looks of the buildings/shops... it is all cluttered and messy.
I realise that my ideas are just from top of my head and things could be more complex, but it is a lot better than I Love Tottenham badges and expensive Xmas lights
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Meanwhile - the Carpetright space is ripe for a mini Boxpark. No longterm commitment, bung down some containers and plumb them in - as mentioned on this other post re High Streets. Fill it with aforementioned fashion + music stuff.
Where are the people in Planning (elsewhere?) who can think wild?
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@Seema
Exactly. The council's decision to close the customer service centre (at short notice) without setting up an alternative infrastructure in its place, turned out in hindsight to be a disaster. Most locals who had problems with basic things like council tax and parking permits simply couldn't afford to go to River Park House, and at present it is extremely difficult to contact the council by phone. If you search across Harringay Online for example, people have posted articles complaining about queuing for long periods at River Park House just to want to make a routine enquiry.
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Permalink Reply by JJ B on
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There's already 'stuff' going on in Markfield Park to the south as well as off Broad Lane. There were 2 'open studio' events last summer. One actually took place the evening of the riots!
A good salaried Town Centre Mnager with a clear remit to make things happen and who will get to know traders/business people and who can influence how they set up their shop fronts. Its all well and good to have policies but if they aren't enforced or if when traders decide to redo/install a shop front they end up looking like crap then their is no point. This I've noticed since I moved here in 2009!
And the shops don't necessarily have to change WHAT they sell. After all the local customers must want to buy what's on sale or the shops won't survive. It doesn't mean they have to look crappy. We don't want a clone of Stoke Newington Church st either, just a pleasant neighbourhood High Street which will make us feel good and lift our spirits and set a tone.
We all seem to agree in essence on this. Why is it so hard for 'those in charge' to see this and get things moving? Are certain people/organisations getting kickbacks/patronage on a national level from developers? Is it incompetence? Do they just not care? Are they just too busy lookingafter their own political careers that they feel that they don't need to make the effort because they'll be a shoe-in at the next election?
I think the moood is changing and they need to realise this. People are asking for accountability.
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