Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Gridlocked roads around Wood Green / Ally Pally / Muswell Hill
What’s happened to traffic management in Haringey? Multiple temp lights/roadworks across area has brought traffic to standstill. Why isn’t the council managing closures more effectively?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jamie Harper
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A couple of points.
Fines issued and money received can vary greatly. In this FOI from the 'whatdotheyknow' site, we can see that £3,539,085 was received by the council in the first 7 months of LTN operation in the borough. This represented 97,611 fines.
It's not hard to get near 700k fines over the three years they've been in operation.
£42m seems high given an expectation of increased driver awareness over time, but it's not inconceivable that represents the total notional value of fines issued.
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Permalink Reply by Brian
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Re: Freedom of Information Act Request ref: LBH/15930324
Thank you for your request for information received on 17th October 2024, in which you asked for the following:
1. The number of fixed penalty notices (or any other types of fine) issued to people for breaching Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in your authority
2. The total value of fixed penalty notices (or any other types of fine) issued to people for breaching Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in your authority
3. The actual revenue/income the council has received from payments of LTN fixed penalty notices (or other types of fines)
My response is as follows:
Financial Year
Actual income received from LTN PCNs
Total value of LTN PCNs
Number of LTN PCNS issued
2022/23*
£4,896,309.33
£13,478,539.00
103271
2023/24
£5,503,368.80
£20,576,566.00
145681
1st April 2024 - 31st October 2024
£1,762,394.05
£8,562,110.00
63023
NB This gives a total of £42,617,215. This was just over a year ago the total is probaly much closer to £60,000,000 now. Brian Bowles*The dates for the 2022/23 period are from 15/08/2022 to 31/03/2023, as the first LTN was launched on 15/08/2022.
If you are unhappy with how we have responded to your request you can ask us to conduct an Internal Review. If so, please contact the Feedback & Resolutions Teama href="mailto:FoI@haringey.gov.uk">mailto:FoI@haringey.gov.uk>. (Please note you should do so within two months of this response)
Yours sincerely,
The Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN) Team
[cid:image002.jpg@01DB351F.E28E3370]
River Park House,
225, High Road,
Wood Green,
London, N22 8HQ
020 8489 4787
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So the bigger of your nos assumes that no-one pays early to get the reduced rate. The real revenue is the first lower no. Sao whilst the drivers of Haringey either ignored or didn't see the signs they can at least read their PCNs and pay the lower fines.
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RESPONSE TO PAUL K. ABOVE.
Please see my reply showing the information received a year ago from Haringey Council in response to my Freedaom of Information request.
It gives a total for the two and a half year period for revenue generated from fines of contraventions of LTN regs of £42,617,215.
As I stated above, congestion in the borough (and resulting pollution) is very low on the priorty list for Haringey Council - revenue generation is the 'driving' factor. (Pun intended.)
I assume you will wish, now, to apologise for having inferred that I was 'making things up.'
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Permalink Reply by Paul K
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The devil is in the detail, or to put it another way, there are "lies, damned lies and statistics" [© B Disraeli]
You said "in the two and two thirds years since their introduction, the LTNs had generated £42,000,000 in fines for the Council".
Well they haven't. Your argument was based upon the financial value to the council - which the figure you gave does not represent; hence my proposition that your "statistics" did not add up. Thank you for posting the actual figures in respnse to my well-founded scepticism.
The value of LTN's issued is not the same as the amount "generated" whatever that means. The number issued has plummeted as people have got used to them and in any case many were rescinded for a whole host of reasons including error. As it happens I got one in the early days which was kindly rescinded as although it was entirely my fault I didn't read the sign which had just gone up; I pointed out I had used that route for years. I have of course ever since driven a different route. It is notable, and hardly surprising, that the number issued and the amount of fines collected has plummeted. I have never understood why a traffic measure which causes inconvenience to a few [myself included] but is beneficial to the health of everyone, particularly children, generates such vituperative opposition. Now I'm going for a little walk.
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