Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
What would a fair and equitable transport system in Haringey look like?
One that serves the young, old, walkers, drivers, bus users, cyclists, disabled drivers and non-drivers, carers and those with small children …
Such complex issues are increasingly being addressed around the world by convening Citizens’ Assemblies (at government level as well as in local areas, for example), where randomly selected residents (a group of 50-100, commonly) are given expert advice about a topic, which they discuss, and then draw up a set of recommendations. An independent organisation such as the charity Involve supervises the process, including which experts provide the information, and the Sortition Foundation organises the random sample. In our traffic example, the recommendations would then be presented to Haringey Council, who could then act on them in the knowledge that people with different backgrounds and experiences had worked these out together.
The selection process has two levels – initially, several thousand residents are randomly selected and sent invitations, then a stratified random sample is generated from those who reply (and supply demographic details, as well as e.g. whether or not they own a car). So the resulting sample should reflect the demographic etc. characteristics of, in our case, the population of Haringey.
A petition has been organised by a coalition of local groups to ask Haringey Council to convene such a Citizen’s Assembly to clarify what residents want - please sign!
https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/haringey-citizens-assembly-camp...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amit on
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Forgive me ignorance but why would the costs be different locally vs nationally? (Accommodation costs notwithstanding, your estimate is an order of magnitude lower).
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Permalink Reply by Annabel Gregory on
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I gather that the main cost in all this is producing the random sample, including sending out massive numbers of mailings. Sampling 60million people must be a big task!
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Analysis of the effectiveness of Citizens' Assemblies - here are some links, with discussion of whether the institutions that convene them use the results:
At the European level there's the Knowledge Network on Climate Assemblies KNOCA (a large proportion of CAs focus on the climate, but I think the points discussed here are relevant to all types of CAs):
https://www.knoca.eu/current-trends/climate-assemblies-emerging-tre...
specifically on governance of the CA - including choice of experts:
https://www.knoca.eu/quick-reads/governance-of-climate-assemblies
In the UK, the Constitution Unit at University College London have researched CAs:
https://constitution-unit.com/2024/03/25/citizens-assemblies-what-a...
And here is an examination of the effectiveness of CAs convened by local authorities in the UK. The post was written in early 2022, so more recent info. is needed ...
https://constitution-unit.com/2022/03/25/local-citizens-assemblies-...
And here is a list of all the CAs that took place in the UK - again, completed before the end of 2021 - more info needed! The post includes the websites of the various CAs.
https://www.involve.org.uk/citizens-assembly-tracker
Barnet Council held a CA on climate change and biodiversity in early 2023- here is an interesting evaluation of it by two researchers at Middlesex University (unfortunately their specialisms don't seem to relate particularly well to the topic in hand, but their comments none-the-less are interesting):
https://ehq-production-europe.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/29d85b15b3...
There seem to have been problems with their use of in-house facilitators who work for the Council (to save money). Council officers seem to have a rather large presence at the CA too:
https://engage.barnet.gov.uk/barnets-citizen-assembly
Finally, here is some info. about publications and activities regarding CAs by the founding chair of KNOCA, Graham Smith, who is based at the Univ. of Westminster:
https://www.westminster.ac.uk/about-us/our-people/directory/smith-g...
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Thanks for these links! This really stood out to me: "assemblies can illuminate where informed public opinion lies, and help steer discussion away from simplistic headlines towards thoughtful consideration of difficult trade-offs."
So to paraphrase, it's a way for policymakers and politicians to understand how people think about things and what people want. Sounds reasonable but very difficult to do well, and also very open to manipulation (as I think your links show)
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Yes, exactly! The CA should feed into decision-making by the Council, rather than be any sort of alternative.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah on
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I have been a facilitator in one of these Assemblies, this is a very good description of what happens
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Great! May I ask what assembly that was?
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Amit, you wrote: "it's not clear to me what the issue is that citizens assemblies are trying to solve."
I don't pretend to have any of the personal knowledge About Citizens Assemblies which Annabel Gregory illustrates. (Thanks Annabel for your latest posts.)
But what I'd like to offer are some insights from working in the UK local Government system both as a member of staff (in the borough of Brent) and as an elected councillor (in Haringey).
At least in my personal view neither can accurately be described in your description as "councillors effectively acting as as a proxy for people with different backgrounds..." etc,
That's not a criticism of you, Amit, It's simply an acknowledgement that the well-intentioned proxy systems you describe have what can - charitably - be called deep flaws. And having a democratic deficit.
The late Professor Peter Mair was more critical. His last book was entitled "Ruling the Void; The Hollowing of Western Democracy ".I suspect that one step to finding solutions is to explore a range of experiments.
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Thanks Alan, I don't disagree that the current system is not optimal (despite the very best efforts of many people throughout the system) but the quote you've picked out really is a genuine question: without a clear understanding of what the issue that citizens assemblies is solving is, it's really hard to understand what they are the answer to.
So far (and forgive me for being slightly uncharitable) the main point seems to be that people feel disenfranchised and don't trust politicians, despite the extreme lengths the council (not councillors) goes to to make consultations accessible. I can't see how (costly) performative exercises in "solutioneering" changes the fundamental issue, which is far more to do with a dysfunctional party / political system rather than poorly run bureaucracy.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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It might be useful to look at how public involvement can work.
I am a patient partner working with the national NHS England Cancer Programme. I am presented with a range of projects that I can work on but it’s up to me to make the decision on which ones I think I can best contribute to and influence. At the moment I am working on awarding contracts for trialing innovative approaches to early cancer diagnosis and rolling out rapid diagnosis centres across the country.
I work on these because I am an expert. I am not an expert in cancer diagnosis, organisational change or public finance. I am an expert on the experience of living with cancer and using that experience to judge the impact of a project or proposal from the perspective of the person who currently uses cancer services and may be using new services in the future.
I am supported by a team who can provide me with expert evidence for me to assess and source responses to questions I need answering. I sit on a board of other experts in their own fields whose advice I listen to. My own opinions and advice are given the same weight as the National Clinical Director for Cancer Services and the Director of National Cancer Policy.
It costs money. But the relatively modest amount spent on my involvement massively outweighs the cost of getting it wrong and delivering a service that does not meet the needs of people living with cancer.
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Although it's not clear why your view of living with cancer is any more valid than the next person's. I did a similar role in relation to maternity services but my experience of those services was very different to most of the women I met as part of that role. Was I the right person to be the "patient voice"? Maybe I was but maybe I wasn't - I was there because I volunteered which almost by definition means I'm probably not representative.
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I think both your and Michael's involvement sounds great - do you have to be representative? That would be asking a lot. Just to be there as someone on the receiving end of NHS services is the important thing - particularly if you are passing on info. about other people's experiences, as it sounds like you were doing. And from Michael's post it sounds as if you give informed viewpoints - not everyone has the time or energy (particularly if they are suffering from cancer!) to seek expert evidence.
Citizens Assemblies, by contrast, do have to be representative.
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