Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
What if the council banned overtaking on Wightman Rd?
I wonder what people would think if the council experimented with completely banning overtaking on Wightman Rd as a step towards giving us a more liveable urban environment without offending the motorists of Crouch End and Enfield too much? The 20mph limit is set by the council and this ban would also be in their remit. Although speed limit is mostly enforced using road humps I challenge you go and visit another English town without 20mph limits in areas like Harringay, it's frightening.
The idea would be that in rush hour, maximum speeds would be enforced by cyclists and that cycling down there would be a much nicer experience. There is already precious little room or incentive (I'll get to that) for vehicles to overtake anyway.
At rush hour there are queues at either end of Wightman Rd, quite big queues, that make it nonsensical to over take anyway. We have seen video footage on here of dangerous overtaking on Wightman Rd and it has to be done at much more than the 20mph limit because of oncoming traffic and the pedestrian islands.
Thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Graham Charnock on
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What about knocking down all the houses on the west side and then widening it to a four-lane highway?
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Not really economically viable. You’d lose a couple of hundred homes in a borough with one of the biggest problems with homelessness in the country in order to allow cars to travel a kilometre at 20 miles an hour. And have to pay many millions on the compulsory purchase of the properties. Doesn’t sound a good return on investment.
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There was a degree of LOL in my post.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon T on
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I think we've been here before..... (if a little to the west, and 30-40 years ago) - see
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1984/may/11/archway-road...
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Oh that was great, thanks for posting. The response was essentially a list of things to do if you want to win at a public inquiry:
"The Minister of State, Department of Transport (Mrs. Lynda Chalker)
I have listened with great interest to the points made by the hon. Member for Islington, North (Mr. Corbyn). We all know his long-standing opposition to the schemes and his resistance, which goes back to his days on the council of Haringey and continues now in Islington. I am sorry to note that he still cannot bring himself to condemn the harassment that caused Sir Michael Giddings to resign."
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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The plans were even more horrifying and included a six-lane road across Hampstead Heath - https://www.locallocalhistory.co.uk/ctown/p100/pages126-129.htm
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And when it meets the Barking - Gospel Oak railway? Ah, that's easy - convert the railway to a road too.
Note to younger readers - that was a real live Dept of Transport proposal in the mid-80s.
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Whilst you're at it again in your war against car drivers What if councils enforced the prosecution of cyclist using the road with no lights and going through red traffic light signals? Controversial yes, off topic yes I'm afraid, but for the two are intrinsically linked for me. Before car drivers learn to respect and work together with cyclists to share the road responsibly the mindset of both entities will have to change which is easier said than done. I find it hard to respect cyclist as I watch on a daily basis upwards of 75% of them travelling through red lights. As a cyclist you want to be respected on the road? Then clean up your side of the fence, campaign to make cyclist conform to the laws like everyone else has to, and then maybe you will find that car drivers will see them as something more than irritating and therefore insignificant in regards to safety. Why should I be patient and give you the space you need to ride safely when you don't have the patience yourself to obey the rules of the road. Like I said controversial but I feel part of the problem. Banning overtaking is another step the wrong way to making drivers the targets. Co operation should be encouraged but it cuts two ways. Plus if I'm following an old boy doing 5 mph on Wightman Road must I not overtake him safely because of this ill thought out idea. Hmm - that's not going to happen. Conclusion stop attacking car drivers and learn to find a way where we can co existing without making out the car driver as the aggressor bad man all the time, most are not.
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Permalink Reply by Malc B on
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"... car drivers will see them as something more than irritating and therefore insignificant in regards to safety"
A gentle reminder that the "them" in this instance are human beings.
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Dearest Godfrey, I am not conducting a war against car drivers, despite their many infringements that I witness on my daily cycle into the city and back. In fact from my window which overlooks the Wormwood St/Bishopsgate junction I see as many drivers as it is possible to see go through the red lights with each phase. As for lights, I am constantly pointing out to motorists that they don't have their lights on (I point and make a flashing sign with my fist and they put their lights and and wave thank you) but I don't bother with the ones that only have one working light, of which there are many.
I also note with some concern that emissions from motor vehicles (which I can taste) are causing climate change and illegal levels of poisonous gasses in London so surely encouraging people to get out of motor vehicles and onto more sustainable forms of transport should be a laudable aim, no? This is not a war.
Although I am a practically religious obeyor of the rules of the road as they apply to me I find motorists are not. For instance I am often overtaken despite the fact that I am doing 20mph on the Hackney section of Green Lanes.
What I am pointing out here is that when a cyclist is overtaken on Wightman Rd, because there is such a small differential in the speed a cyclist is doing and the speed a motor vehicle can legitimately do, it is pointless overtaking them as there is a queue to get onto Endymion at the end. I am saying that if we discouraged motorists from doing this overtaking, they would spend no longer than they do at the moment on their journeys through our neighbourhood and we would have a safer route for cyclists.
I won't campaign for cyclists to obey the laws of the road as I have absolutely no sway with them, in fact about as much as you have with other motorists. I wish they would as I appreciate that it is often given as a reason for why motorists disobey the road rules, but as I said, nothing I can do about it.
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Dearest John,
" In fact from my window which overlooks the Wormwood St/Bishopsgate junction I see as many drivers as it is possible to see go through the red lights with each phase. As for lights, I am constantly pointing out to motorists that they don't have their lights on (I point and make a flashing sign with my fist and they put their lights and and wave thank you) but I don't bother with the ones that only have one working light, of which there are many."
You surely cant be insinuating that the amount of car drivers that run red lights is a similar volume to the number of cyclists that do the same? You have a snapshot at one junction in one place, I see cyclists at every set of traffic lights and I would wager anything you want that my figure would be significantly higher than yours.
"I also note with some concern that emissions from motor vehicles (which I can taste) are causing climate change and illegal levels of poisonous gasses in London so surely encouraging people to get out of motor vehicles and onto more sustainable forms of transport should be a laudable aim, no? This is not a war."
Oh the old emissions argument, cars are bad, cars pollute, cars cause x amount of death through the toxic pollution, what can we do?, maybe push our governments and car manufacturers to clean up their acts and give us vehicles that are not bad for the planet, OR, do as I do, I like cycling - I'm mad keen on it if it's good enough for me must be good enough for everyone regardless of their circumstances, I have been a cyclist man and boy for 40 years and never did me any harm, so lets make everyone do what I like.
"Although I am a practically religious obeyor of the rules of the road as they apply to me I find motorists are not. For instance I am often overtaken despite the fact that I am doing 20mph on the Hackney section of Green Lanes."
We can swap traffic anecdotes all day won't change our points though - I see some horrendous cycling on my daily commute - This morning I nearly took a cyclist out cycling down the centre of the road approaching a red, unfortunately for him it went green before he could get to the safety of his special cycle box. As I opened up the throttle he realised he was inches from certain harm and threw himself to the ground as a dramatic emergency stop - I didn't even see him til I saw him rolling around in the dirt. As some would say - idiot.
"What I am pointing out here is that when a cyclist is overtaken on Wightman Rd, because there is such a small differential in the speed a cyclist is doing and the speed a motor vehicle can legitimately do, it is pointless overtaking them as there is a queue to get onto Endymion at the end. I am saying that if we discouraged motorists from doing this overtaking, they would spend no longer than they do at the moment on their journeys through our neighbourhood and we would have a safer route for cyclists."
What you are saying John is as two parties of road users cannot co exist on a stretch of hazardous road that the party you identify more with should have precedence over the other regardless of the implications. I say make the road safe yes, anyone would agree with that I'm sure, but not to the detriment of one party over the other, illustrating your point with some 'insight' into queuing at Endymion Road doesn't add up when, say, it's 10:00pm at night. What happen's then? We still don't over take. What happens If I wasn't going to the end of Wightman Road thus I wouldn't be held up in queueing traffic, am I allowed to overtake a slow cyclist struggling to get up the hill in the middle part of Wightman Road or, as you suggest, just sit back at 3 mph and shout some encouragement for the out of steam cyclist? - It's a nonsense really.
"I won't campaign for cyclists to obey the laws of the road as I have absolutely no sway with them"
Why doesn't that surprise me - you know and I know cyclist break the law with absolutely no fear of being prosecuted for it, car drivers don't have that luxury, they break the lawyers, but that number plate means there could be repercussions from their actions.
Looks like this one is another agree to disagree moment
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