Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Why is Crouch End high street so much cleaner than Green Lanes?
I recently noted that people queue for buses in Crouch End but not Green Lanes and wondered why.
On my most recent excursion I noticed how markedly cleaner Crouch End is on a Saturday morning compared to Green Lanes and again wondered why?
Both are very busy on a Saturday morning (Crouch End arguably more so). Both have lots of cafes and restaurants. Both have bus stops.
But Green Lanes is littered with rubbish.
Why is it so?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton
-
You make an interesting point, Oli Brown. Do you have Japanese family or family history? Have you studied in Japan?
-
Permalink Reply by Jamie Harper
-
Here's a question, Alan. Do you think responding to race-baiting is even mildly constructive?
-
-
Jamie Harper, Am I responding to race baiting? Ae you referring to what I posted to Oli. I naively posed questions purely from curiosity.
Posters for the film Alien proclaimed "[n space no one can hear you scream."
On HoL in Cyberspace no one can here us laugh or cry.
-
-
They even called you out to play It's tiresome and simply extends their malign xenophobia and racism on the site.
You engage with people who post the following
"Import the third world, become the third world"
"The orcs are in the shire"
"Japan is still an homogeneous society"
Do you believe you are so exceptional that you're going to turn the middle-aged bigots? That's foolish arrogance rather than naivety. Enough silly games.
-
Permalink Reply by John McMullan
-
This is the difference between you and Oli, you believe that humans are blank slates and he doesn't. There's no need to resort to name calling, it doesn't make one of you a bigot.
This book makes the case that you summarised so eloquently as "import the third world, become the third world". I understand some people don't like to read books that disagree with their priors, but this one was quite famous at the time, and I'm sure would be acceptable.
I now believe that some areas of London are messier than others because the people there are messier. I used to think it was because the people in the clean places were just better at getting the council to clean things up.
-
-
-
Ah yes, 'race realism'. The precursor to eugenics.
There's a very good film on Channel 4 right now that follows this logic.
-
-
-
It's not about race, it's about culture. What we might call racial differences in humans make very little difference to our humanity compared to the cultures we are brought up in. The black white stuff is a good case to look at: ever noticed how white athletes win in the pool at the Olympics but black athletes win on the track? White people have weaker/lighter skeletons and fairer skin to take on vitamin D in the summer. Black people have stronger skeletons and darker skins because in Africa they were able to take on sunshine all year round. That's to do with immune systems and the different methods you can use to power them.
Culturally, we in the west were made pro-social through the actions of the church: monasteries, clocks in town squares, 1000 years of consanguinity laws, monogamous marriage, attacks against "kin groups" - which Romeo and Juliet is about, and many more. The rest of the world, as you described them, the third world, are still kin based: they trust their family members more than strangers.
When I am out walking my dogs and see people who are obviously immigrants (accent and appearance) also walking a dog I think to myself "that person has come here to be British". To the rest of the world, the Anglosphere has a weird fascination with dogs.We have made great progress in race relations in this country, but ask any black man from Tottenham and he'll say that there is a world of difference between him and a black man from Africa. These differences matter and they don't just go away when someone arrives in Britain. There is no such thing as magic dirt.
If you prefer a less delicate point of difference, researchers have shown that Tory/Libdem voting in Britain is still affected by the Danelaw. More than 1000 years ago, attitude differences between the pagan Vikings and the Christian Saxons are still with us. Another one I like is that Protestants kill themselves at TWICE the rate of Jews and Catholics. This is all culture, look that one up, there's loads of evidence.
-
-
-
It is indeed culture and some cultures are better than others. And by better I mean they produce better outcomes for the adherants. Thus, the people who live in Crouch End, through a combination of not littering themselves and demanding that the litter that is left by visitors is cleaned up quickly, enjoy a better environment in which to.live.
-
-
-
Jamie Harper, Do I believe the fantasy you set out? No I don't. I believe that if I want to ask someone about some fact or other then a good idea is to make them a clear polite request for that information. The same in reverse.
I notice that there are people in this thread who are keen on giving their opinions; while ignoring requests for information. They are also quick to give personal insults.
Others are more helpful and generous in responding to requests. Which enables more people to learn from one another. That way of working reminds me of the best work teams I had spent time with over the years.
A third group are more likely to give links to books or films. This can be helpful. (Thank you John McMullan for the link to Garatt Jones who I shall now download and make time to read.)
Thanks too, Jamie Harper for the link to the film Zone of Interest. I can't help but see the shocking modern parallels with Palestinians besieged in Gaza.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Cynthia Brown
-
How dare you! I am not middle-aged.
-
-
Permalink Reply by Clive Carter
-
I WAS much impressed with the cleanliness of Tokyo's pavements.
Another thing that grew on me was the Japanese footwear tradition.
When I stayed in the Tokyo Youth Hostel, at first it seemed odd to be required to take off (one's outdoor) shoes and then switch to slippers for indoors.
After a bit, it seemed perfectly sensible. When later returning to Haringey, the practice of wearing outdoor shoes inside seemed odd at first. I'm sure we've all trodden in dog mess at one time or another.
We can learn from other cultures.
In Finsbury Park a while ago, I button-holed a local Japanese lady in Finsbury Park. What she was doing was astonishing. We had quite a chat. She had become so disgusted with the litter on the north side that she, being a good citizen, decided take matters into her own hands: and pick it up herself. Naturally she is a supporter of The Friends of Finsbury Park.
© 2026 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
