Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Could we do our own traffic survey?
There are only six roads that cross the East Coast Mainline between Arsenal's stadium and the North Circular, all are single carriageway (Seven Sisters, Endymion, Turnpike, Buckingham, Durnsford & Blake) of which only three have classifications. I suspect that much of the illegal commercial through traffic that the ladder sees is because of the nightmare faced by drivers using the North Circular just north of us. Perhaps all our problems will be solved in 2012 when trucks from depots east and west of us can head straight up to the North Circular confident of being able to head across North London without the logjam that is the North Circular from the A105 to the A109.
So I've been thinking for sometime on how we could do our own traffic survey. If someone asks I'll give you the geeky background behind my plan but here's what I've come up with so far:
1. We'd only need to survey the ladder (Finsbury Park to Turnpike Lane) as the gardens have no through traffic.
2. The survey would run for an hour or two one morning and evening but not necessarily on the same day.
3. It would probably require about 33 people, all conducting the survey at the same time.
4. We would use "sheets" of paper specially laid out to record the last three letters of registration numbers.
5. Each set of sheets would be valid for a certain intersection+direction and a certain time period, e.g. 10 minutes on Endymion/Wightman inbound from Green Lanes and timings would be re-calibrated by switching over to the next sheet.
6. There would be columns on the sheets to record "registration suffixes" under different categories.
7. You would guess given the time/category/rego suffix a vehicle's journey through Harringay once you got all the data together.
Here's an example of what I mean
With this raw data and a computer model of our "network" we could determine not only how much traffic we see but why and then maybe someone could actually do something about it.
At this stage I'm after constructive criticism and more ideas but I'd like to actually be doing something by September.
So I've been thinking for sometime on how we could do our own traffic survey. If someone asks I'll give you the geeky background behind my plan but here's what I've come up with so far:
1. We'd only need to survey the ladder (Finsbury Park to Turnpike Lane) as the gardens have no through traffic.
2. The survey would run for an hour or two one morning and evening but not necessarily on the same day.
3. It would probably require about 33 people, all conducting the survey at the same time.
4. We would use "sheets" of paper specially laid out to record the last three letters of registration numbers.
5. Each set of sheets would be valid for a certain intersection+direction and a certain time period, e.g. 10 minutes on Endymion/Wightman inbound from Green Lanes and timings would be re-calibrated by switching over to the next sheet.
6. There would be columns on the sheets to record "registration suffixes" under different categories.
7. You would guess given the time/category/rego suffix a vehicle's journey through Harringay once you got all the data together.
Here's an example of what I mean
With this raw data and a computer model of our "network" we could determine not only how much traffic we see but why and then maybe someone could actually do something about it.
At this stage I'm after constructive criticism and more ideas but I'd like to actually be doing something by September.
Views: 81
Tags for Forum Posts: Ladder traffic solutions, Wightman Road, lorries, lorry, speed humps, traffic, traffic survey, traffic survey 2010
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Comment by Hugh on June 2, 2010 at 2:01
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This could be a great idea John. I wonder if it would be worthwhile approaching it in the spirit of co-production. That way we could work with the experts in the Council and do it in such a way that any results are of a quality that could be used by them.
Worth a try? By all accounts all that's stopping a survey being done is the cost. If wee can take out that cost by doing the grunt work fro them, perhaps we might get our survey?
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Comment by andy thomas on June 2, 2010 at 7:44
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For what it's worth, couldn't we simply go back to pre-2001 days when all the Ladder streets were 2-way?
I've lived on the Ladder long enough to remember trucks & large vans avoiding these roads owing to the difficulty of squeezing past vehicles coming in the other direction, speed humps were not needed as there was usually something coming the other way and car drivers had to take care, children actually played in the street and I could also safely repair my car when parked outside my house.
If we have to put up with one-way traffic in these roads, could someone at least have the sense to get rid of the width restrictions at the exits of these roads? These are the biggest causes of congestion - I can understand restrictions at the start of the road (although I've seen trucks ignore the bollards and simply mow them down to get into the street) but putting them at the exit is just plain brain dead. I live in Lausanne Road and quite often in the mornings the street is choked with cars waiting to turn right into Wightman Road - people wanting to turn left have to wait anything from 5 to 15 minutes before they can do this. The noise and fumes - particularly from diesel vehicles - is not pleasant either.
Opening the exits up to two lanes would allow left turners to exit onto Wightman Road quickly - these are mostly local residents wanting to go south or east who are forced into going round the block by the one-way system; people turning right and going north or west are mostly rat-runners who don't live in the area.
Another solution might be to put traffic lights at the junction of Lausanne Road/Wightman Road - the mandatory zig-zag lines on the approaches would have the very desirable secondary benefit of preventing the crazy & inconsiderate parking often seen outside the church!
Just my ha'porth...
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Comment by matt on June 2, 2010 at 9:37
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By all accounts all that's stopping a survey being done is the cost. If wee can take out that cost by doing the grunt work for them
Cameron's 'Big Society' idea seems to be catching. :0
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Comment by John McMullan on June 2, 2010 at 9:41
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@Hugh, I don't think it's cost alone. Political will is the biggest factor. We've asked for a traffic survey and they gave us a very expensive price to put us off asking again.
@Andy, I think Lausanne Rd must have been the only road that was better off as two-way with no humps going by the 3+ years of discussion on the subject here, here, here, here and here. I would like it back to pre 2002 as well but it's not going to happen, at least not without a traffic survey.
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Here's a simple form. Don't complicate it. The numbers can then be used for your campaign aims, whatever they are (?). If you're prepared to lead it and put in 12-24mths of meetings, emails etc then you may make a dent in a resurgent Labour council but then, they could always say 'we've got no money'. You're probably better off code-locking your road to residents only ... sort of Naughty Society.
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@Matt - For the record, not Cameron's Big Society idea. The idea of co-production / citizen involvement long predates that.
@John - deal with the cost issue and there is no political case.
@Andy, a whole collection of discussions about ladder traffic solutions here, including a previous call from John for a citizens' survey.
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@Hugh I'm really not happy to have politicians or the council involved. The effort put into getting themselves elected could have been more constructively put into this traffic survey.
@Matt, you're missing the point. I'll explain it to you in small words over a beer later if you like.
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Your show, but think you might be missing a trick.
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I've been reading some of the prior discussions but all they seem to have done is generate a lot of hot air and nothing actually gets done. A DIY traffic survey is a step in the right direction (and I'd be willing to assist with this) but whether the council will accept data from non-professional surveyors is another matter, particularly as we as residents have a vested interest in the findings.
Putting a mini-roundabout at the junction of Green Lanes and the Athena retail park (aka Sainsbury's) and getting rid of all the traffic lights in Green Lanes between Endymion Rd and Turnpike Lane might be all it takes - and should cost a lot less than the £100K the council quoted for a survey.
Getting things done round here reminds me of mating elephants: (a) it's all done at high level (b) it's accompanied by a great deal of roaring & screaming and (c) it takes 2 years to get results.
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It's great that people discuss Andy. Let's not knock it, but am all for moving on to action ad will be happy to pitch in to a well through through and properly planned survey. (In fact as you'll see we organised one previously).
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