red. However, I was responding specifically on the Wards Corner development issue, which seems to me to be closely linked to what happens around that immediate area (the junction of Seven Sister and the High Road).
I also agree with your point about how the local users of shops matter a lot, especially if they, or the places where they like to shop, are changed. I intended my comments to be some thoughts on ways of improving things for the ordinary people of Tottenham, who suffer badly from socio-economic poverty, unemployment, poor housing, and lack of good services.
On the subject of the "big box" stores, I have read a little about this, although I am afraid it is probably newspaper articles. The thinking is as follows. Currently, shoppers go to big box stores to buy electrical, electronic, computer products. Formerly, they went to high street shops, many of which are now closed. These shops (including branches of what are now big box stores - Currys, Dixons, PC World, Staples) could not compete with the larger big box branches on range and price. Now people increasingly use the internet/web to buy these products. An online site can offer greater range and lower prices, by virtue of having no bricks-and-mortar outlets, distributing from large warehouses in cheap areas. They offer delivery to a customer's door, often for no or a very low price. The rate at which shopping is moving from buying from a store to buying online is increasing. You will see that already major supermarket chains, such as Tesco and Sainsburys, are putting more and more emphasis on their web order and delivery business. They want to avoid the cost of the big branches (such as Sainsburys at Williamson Road), and encourage people to order online. It's cheaper for them to have one big warehouse, a fleet of delivery lorries/vans, and reduced staff numbers (drivers, warehouse staff) that the branch stores. For the customer, stuff they would have bought in a big supermarket is delivered to their door. They do not need to drive and get caught in huge traffic jams (such as the one that often builds up at the Williamson Road/Green Lanes junction - another poor piece of planning by Haringey Council), and waste time. They do their order from the comfort of home in maybe 20 minutes, and then wait for the delivery. They top up from smaller local stores, either independent or Tesco Local type.
On the basis of this thinking (and my training as an urban geographer, and my knowledge of development of the internet and the web, dating back to 1993) I believe we have reached the high water mark of the big box stores, such as most of those at Tottenham Hale. They will go into decline, and retail parks such as that one will cease to be viable. The enormous amount of urban space wasted on vast parking lots and huge stores will be much better used for housing (huge shortage and high prices in London) and public space.
None of this threatens the well-run high street or town centre. These offer a much wider range of products and services.
I'm surprised you reference the Portas Review. It's complete rubbish, as is Portas. She is solely concerned with self-promotion and making money. Witness recent reports of her wanting priority for her TV company in town centres selected for a miserly amount of government funding as a result of her review. This woman is a joke as an urban planner or a retail adviser.
If you and I are fortunate, we shall live to see what happens to Tottenham, and to the wider area of big box stores, in the next ten years. I am hopeful for the former, and will be happy to see the death of the latter. Oh, and the North Circular and everything around it, are a complete disaster, the result of a motor-car focused planning that dates back to the early sixties, when the dream was that we would, and could all drive everywhere in our own private car. Completely antithetical to any kind of community, or proper urban living. Witness the renewed emphasis on public transport, cycling and walking.…
sekeeper has a limited grasp on such matters and regularly fritters away the housekeeping on baubles and balloons. I’m taking her in hand and trying to educate her in the art of thrift.
Monday was my fortnightly foray into Wood Green. I have appointments and linger longer than usual to browse the shops.
My first revelation is the classical music that is now being piped into the ticket hall at Wood Green tube. It is both rousing and calming and, in my sleep deprived mind, creates a surreal cinematic experience akin to that sequence in the Fisher King, when all the commuters at Grand Central Station begin to waltz. Watching the traffic cavort up, down and round the crossroads is quite jolly when sound tracked to Mozart.
My second revelation is that monster that is Morrison’s. I used to shop there when living up North as we didn’t have a Tesco or a Sainsbury’s, not even an Iceland. Poor us. I’ve never used it down South as I availed myself of the supermarkets that I’d never encountered so this was a first for me. And crikey Bob, there are more reasons to shop at Morrison’s.
I was mesmorised by the meat counter – yes, the adverts are correct, there are real butchers doing dangerous things with hammers, saws and axes. The meat looks wonderfully fresh and there is so much variety: Beef skirt (you too can dress like Lady Gaga), Oxtail, plenty of offally bits and TRIPE! Fresh from Lancashire. You can’t beat that.
The fish counter too delivers its promise. It does all look freshly caught and is laid out beautifully: octopus, squid, scallops, skate and all manner of whole and fish fillets. I used to be married to a fish pathologist so I know what I’m talking about.
I buy “Hedgehog Bread” from the bakery and an “Easter Bun Crown”. I get a massive Pizza Express pizza for £2.49 (double the price in your other supers) and lots of bottles of vegetable and fruit juices. I usually juice my own but I’m tired at the moment and can’t be fagged to peel, chop and compost 6 tonnes of vegetable matter in the morning.
A vicious but funny exchange of words breaks out in the frozen food aisle when two girls who clearly know each other, but are not shopping together, start screaming and accusing each other of “sucking”. “Don’t you suck at me!” is the cry that ricochets past Captain Birdseye and the Findus Crispy Pancakes. I know what this means and it amuses rather than horrifies. The fact that they are both independently talking on their phones to other people whilst conducting this show just adds to the dramatic tableau.
I'm slightly disappointed not to find the "Morinoff" vodka that is available in the Northern branches but am placated by the sight of a real ale called "Banana Bread Ale". If I was still a drinking woman I'd have bought some (and probably be discovered later, gibbering in Shopping City) but I just get a mini-bottle of claret for Mr Cupcake's steak and chips supper.
My shopping total comes to about £65 and I have much more than I usually buy for the same amount at Sainsbury’s. I do however spend £7 on a taxi back to Crouch End so would need to factor that into the budget. Must tell Housekeeper – she’s sturdy and strong and could carry the shopping back to N8 with no reliance on a taxi.
…
eekly veg bag from Crop Drop. The quality is always excellent and it is all grown organically. I used to collect from Craving Coffee which meant every Thursday I had to take a long detour on my way home. Now I collect from a cupboard outside Downhills Park which is closer than my nearest supermarket. I guess the inconvenience now comes from having no choice as to the bag contents, and having to figure out how I'm going to use veg up.
I also get fish from Sole Share, with collection from Harringay Local Store. I get this fortnightly. It's highly inconvenient! I have to make it to the shop before they close, but really I try to make it there before dark as I usually cycle there. I try not to clash with school traffic and after work traffic and once I get to Green Lanes I get off and walk because I quite like being alive and I want to maintain that state of being.
I only find out on collection day what I'm receiving, which leaves little time for meal planning and any extra bits I might need to pick up for a recipe. I get what I can from HLS. If it's something like mussels it's best eaten the same day but Dover sole can go in the fridge until the weekend. The other inconvenience is it's enough for two people and of course I can't invite anyone to dinner at the moment. But I like to get fish from sustainable stocks and it's good to get varieties they don't have at the supermarket. Their packaging is much better than supermarket packaging too - most of it can go in the food waste bin for composting. The only other fish I get is smoked mackerel or herring from Sainsbury's or Ocado, and occasionally wild caught salmon from Ocado.
The whole process of getting and planning and cooking takes me a lot of time, but I guess I've turned it into a hobby.
Part of the reason for the way I eat the way I do is because I have MS and follow an ultra-healthy diet to help manage this - it's very low in saturated fat with no meat, dairy, coconut or palm oils or trans fats. Fish for omega 3s but otherwise vegan. Though it's not wildly different from how I ate before my MS diagnosis - I had more dairy and junk food before and ate coconut yoghurt for breakfast every morning. Ah that's another inconvenience - I swapped coconut yoghurt for Nush almond yoghurt which is much harder to get hold of. I used to make a special trip to Wholefoods Piccadilly but often I'd get there and they'd be out of stock. Sometimes I'd then try Planet Organic. This would all mean getting home from work very late. Now I get it from Ocado but it hasn't always been easy to get the delivery slot I want (or any slot at all) during the pandemic.
I keep thinking of things to add here... I bought an Instant Pot last year to try to cut down on food packaging. It's meant being a bit more organised in my meal planning as if I need a tin of beans for something I now need to factor in time for cooking the beans. The Instant Pot makes it so much easier and quicker than soaking the beans and cooking them on the stovetop though.
Another example of "inconvenience" is one of my favourite recipes (a carrot pancake) calls for it to be served with sprouts (as in, sprouted seeds not Brussels sprouts!). So then I factor in several days for growing the sprouts! But maybe it's convenient? Because it's a really good way of using up carrots from my Crop Drop bag...…
verall strategy that runs over a tome far too big even for the saddos like me that read council documentation. Where were all these voices when we debated this a few months ago? Why did you not speak up? Where were your contributions to the online consultation? Where was your car free petition? How can you wake up now and start shouting how wrong we are? Why did you not offer counter evidence online and at residents groups meetings that we were wrong?
Do you seriously believe that pedestrianisation would result in all the betting shops and pound shops (oh dear I use those) would disappear to be replaced with organic yoghurt shops and Fresh and Wild, McDonalds would shut up shop and be replaced with Giraffe, we'd start seeing Twiggy down at M & S?
I refer you to an earlier comment that the real reason Wood Green is on the decline is that the people who traditionally shop there have less money and they can't afford the consumer goods sold there, chasing the so called 'affluent' shopper as it says in the article is a nonsense, they will not change simply because they can walk from Maplins to Boots.
Also 'one swallow does not a summer make' and one car free day is no evidence that pedestrianisation would be a rousing success unless you are imagining that this will be how it is every day, no, when the stalls and the funny bikes have gone, it will still be Carphone Warehouse and Sainsbury's that the shoppers are left with. You talk about the credibilty of arguments but I have yet to see a case being made that proves that slabbing over the road would be the saviour of the Wood Green retailers.
Instead in this debate, those who have questioned one tiny paragraph of a strategy, have been called 'Nimbys', 'selfish', there have been suggestions of dictatorial behaviour and lack of credibility when there has been not one shred of evidence offered from the pro-slabbing brigade that this measure will in any way shape or form rescue the High Street apart from one day when everyone had a nice time.
As someone who spends a lot of time in the heat of kitchen and living room watching the ever increasing traffic caused by short sighted proposals, badly planned developments like the Arena with more round the corner in the shape of Tottenham Hale, the Heartlands, Finsbury park and not one suggesting that they would be car free, I find it extraordinary that people can be so naive as to believe that the council who gave us Williamson Road, can deliver a pedestrianised Wood Green without it being a huge cock up.
And if you care about a High Street, start caring about one that really is in your backyard, Green Lanes!…
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This page lists those tags we've gathered together so far. There are many more tags than this used on HoL, but It's a long slow process listing them
help develop initial concept designs for physical measures to improve the Green Lanes corridor within the borough.
As an important District Centre within the London Borough of Haringey, Green Lanes is a vibrant place that has many positive attributes. However, the public realm of the street itself could do far more to help Green Lanes become an even more successful place. Understanding the existing concerns and aspirations of those who live, work and use the area is crucial to ensuring that the future design of the street helps fulfils this potential. Therefore, we are asking you to inform and guide the development of concept design proposals.
On arrival I was able to establish that in fact there's' a likley fund of £1.2m TfL money earmarked for the "Green Lanes Corridor" between Turnpike Lane & the borough boundary half way down Finsbury Park. When I asked if there were specific objectives which the money needed to meet and how wide the corridor was, the response suggested that things were somewhat flexible in these respects.
The meeting chiefly consisted of those residents, councillors and politicians present outlining what they felt the key issues were. there was also some discussion.
There were few surprises in the issues raised - see the HoL Twiiter stream reproduced below for details. Neither was it particularly shocking that some passions and tensions became very evident through the evening.
The issue of major contention once again seems to be the flow of traffic through the residential streets - nothing better guarantees polarising local interests - in this case the Gardens on one side, traders and Ladder residents on the other.
There were a few outbursts and some grumpiness but by and large things were pretty civilised.
This really is a great opportunity to make some significant quality of life enhancing changes to our neighbourhood. I really hope as a group we can agree on a balance that satisfies all. In so doing I very much hope that the tough decisions are neither dodged nor fudged.
At the end of the meeting, I asked whether, in this environment of devolved budgets and community empowerment, residents could have a say in the decision, rather than just being involved in the consultation. Amidst the shocked silence and paper shuffling. I was pleased to hear Cllr Zena Brabazon supporting this. Well, you never know, do you.
The next step will be in November when the external consultants report back with some "practical possibilities". It's not clear to me what opportunity there will be for a wider group to get involved, but if you have any comments / recommendations, the lead consultant is Oliver Davey, 020 7380 4560, o.davey@urbaninitiatives.co.uk.
Harringay Online Twitter Timeline for 18:00 to 20:30, 13th October 2010 covering a meeting at the Civic Centre to discuss recommendations to spend £1.2m of TfL funding on Harringay’s “Green Lanes Corridor”
At Civic Centre hearing that Green Lanes corridor is likely to get £1.2m for improvement over 3 years. Just about to hear of what those around the table fell are the key issues for Harringay about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific
1. It's designed for traffic not pedestrians or cyclists. Parts of Green Lanes feel like a dual carriageway l about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific
2. Cllr Adamou - Jct with St Ann's & 1 way system & east west traffic is a problem. Need a crossing on GL near Frobisher about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific
3. Cllr Brabazon - closure of Hermitage a problem. That and Gardens closure causes Ladder traffic problems about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific
4. Cllr Alexander endorses above about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific
Cllr Alexander also raising problems with Sainsbury's traffic about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific
Discussing priorities for Harringay at the Civic Centre http://twitpic.com/2xbnbx about 2 hours ago via Twitpic Poster for iPhone
5. Ian. Sygrave LCSP - Bendy buses a real problem for traffic & on board crime about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific
Things getting heated over Gardens closure - Gardens residents defend; traders & other residents see it as a problem about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific
Cllr Schmitz focuses on Frobisher Road crossing, speed on GL north of St Ann's, unfair parking signing. Speaks of need to balance interests about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific
Cllr Schmitz on where the traffic is forced in Harringay "the rats are forced to dress left rather than right". about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific
Shefik Mehmet of Harringay traders makes impassioned case for opening Gardens & Hermitage Road & improving parking for traders about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
Shefik demands improvement for the bridge. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
Haringey Council planted 73 trees and left them to die says Mehmet. They only lived because he watered them. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
More requests for traffic improvements to help cyclists. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
Frds of Chestnuts want a crossing on Blackboy Lane; improving cycle access to Finsbury Park. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
Cycling voices very very highly represented here tonight. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
Frds of Chestnuts also want more trees on Green Lanes, benches for older people & public toilets & space for allotments. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
GRA - revisit right hand turn into St Ann's, 20 mph on Green Lanes; Tokyo style crossing at Warham/Salisbury about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
GRA - enforcement of southbound bus lane to enforce Iceland truck that parks every morning from 8.30 to 9.30 about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
GRA want Warwick & Stanhope's status as part of national cycle route recognised. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
GRA - Gardens closure must remain about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
GRA - English Heritage funding needed on a par with what given to Tottenham. Cllr Brabazon says it's a nightmare getting it. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
GRA - green the Green Lanes wall of Homebase. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific
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crime quickly and effectively.
Better roads for bikes means better roads all round
Promote the key benefits of the StArt initiative for truly affordable Housing and improved health care provision, as well as employment opportunities within the St Ann's sight.
Safer crossings for pedestrians on Green Lanes , Endymion Rd, Turnpike Lane and Wightman Rd and Tokyo Crossing at Frobisher Rd Junction with Green Lanes. a safe crossing from Duckets common to Green Gate Common for bus users and pedestrians.
Electric vehicle charging points for the Ladder, especially on new developments.
Community Infrastructure Levy money to be locked into the ward from Development, some five million pounds.
An equitable solution to reduce impact on our communities health from congestion and traffic
Realise the objectives of Living Wightman
Return of Children's centres to the Ladder, promoting parent training and caring, employment opportunities.
Establish a forum to senior citizens,mot encourage greater visibility in the community and meet their needs
Cultural forums to understand emerging needs within our community, and encourage social activity
A community zone like the Gardens residents have, an old Labour idea.
Community festivals for Finsbury park
Street parties for greater social bonding and communication
Translations fit for purpose, with extra carriages for commuters in peak times.
Accessible train stations for Hornsey Harringay.
Improve safer access on our pedestrian rail Bridges at Hornsey and Harringay
Improve pedestrian linkages or routes to our train stations parks and ledgeability of area for walking
Make the route to Manor House and Turnpike lane less pedestrian hostile with improvements coordinating with Hackney council urban design team.
Safer crossings for the passage for pedestrians
A new pedestrian crossing on Harringay passage to cross Turnpike Lane, encouraging pedestrian movement on to to Wood Green exiting at the little Green Bookshop.
LED lighting for Harringay Passage.
Improved footpaths across the Ladder
Pollution studies by Haringey Council.
Enforcement of speed restrictions at night to make green Lanes safer.
Encourage diversity on the high street, look at high street rates, to establish if Haringey are pricing out dynamic business in empty shops, encouraging local employment, and offerings on the High Street.
A W bus for wightman rd from Sainsbury's to Shopping City.
A greater diversity of activities and sports in Finsbury Park.
Promote and support community involvement of sites of environmental importance within Harringay
Identify opportunities for a school site for secondary or matriculation, ie years 10 -12, possibly Jewsons with good rail links to facilities at Heartlands only 3-4 minutes by train.
Promote and open up our Community centres to promote cultural cohesion and experience
Reduction of car reliance, energy poverty and promote technology to realise a carbon neutral ward
Provide a guideline for loft extensions with case studies to promote thoughtful development and visual impact
Encourage gardening in front yards to improve the feel of Harringay's private realm
Promote vistas with careful consideration of tree planting on the Ladder Roads, greening our ward.
Bring back a Harringay Market to promote food and start ups, with a pathway to longer term enterprise.
Encourage Harringay to be creative with our area, and get behind local initiatives.
Encourage sporting activity for all, through cooperation with schools.
More to follow, any party can adopt these ideas and they should enguage all of them within their political career. it's a wish list so you can be as creative and dynamic as you like.…
everyone to submit their comments as these proposed plans are the Council’s programme for 'regenerating' Haringey over the next 20 years. This public consultation provides the chance to submit your views which will from part of the paperwork which will be reviewed by an independent planning inspector in a formal enquiry in the autumn. If you have strong views about how the Council sees your, and our neighbourhoods, please take the time to comment.
The more comments the better. As I’ve said before, silence is assent.
The submissions from the Ladder Community Safety Partnership (LCSP) and the Gardens Residents Association (GRA) are below.
They are well-worth reading and set out clearly their groups’ views about what the Council wants to do. Whatever your views, please take the time to have your say. The deadline is this Friday, 7th March.
The site development plans are on the Haringey website: http://haringey.gov.uk/site-allocations-dpd
You can post your comments at: ldf@haringey.gov.uk
Zena Brabazon
Cllr St. Ann’s Ward
Chair, St. Ann’s and Harringay Area Forum and Committee
zena.brabazon@haringey.gov.uk
_________________________________________
Ladder Community Safety Partnership (LCSP) Submission
About the LCSP
The Ladder Community Safety Partnership (LCSP) is an umbrella organisation, representing numerous Residents’ Associations and Neighbourhood Watches, and aims to communicate the views and concerns of local residents in the Ladder and Green Lanes area of Haringey, as expressed in our regular monthly meetings and updates.
The LCSP has a large membership and it would obviously be impossible to reflect the views of every single one of our members. However, the following submission is carefully based upon comments made by our members
At the Harringay and St. Ann’s Area Forum on 21st January 2014.
At the monthly LCSP meeting on 13th February.
Via individual communications to the LCSP committee members over the past weeks.
Our members’ overall concerns
A simple glance at the Draft Site Allocations Map for the south of the Borough reveals not only the size of the proposed development areas, but also the extent to which many are clustered together near Green Lanes:
St. Ann’s Hospital site
Greater Ashfield Road
Vale Road/Tewkesbury Road
Arena Retail Park
In addition to these large sites, there are three further smaller locations, which also impact on the Green Lanes area:
Hampden Road/Railway Approach (planning for some 80 units underway)
Possible development use of Jewsons site in Wightman Road
Possible development use of BDC site, adjacent to Green Lanes
A combination of all seven of these proposals represents a massive development within a very small corner of the borough, in an already densely populated area. We are particularly concerned at the implications both for local infrastructure and quality of life of local residents.
In this context we note in the Saved UDP (UD3), it is clearly stated that development proposals should demonstrate that ‘there is no significant adverse impact on residential amenity’ and that ‘new development…. will not worsen the quality of life for those living and working in Haringey’. It is difficult to see how the cumulative impact of all the proposed developments will be able to meet these fundamental criteria. It is vital that all these sites are assessed in an holistic way, taking account of their impacts on each other, and not just assessed in isolation on an individual basis.
The Arena Retail Park, Site S4
Our members are particularly concerned about the nature of the proposals for the Arena Retail Park (S4), which are excessively ambitious and, we believe, totally unrealistic. For these reasons, and because the site has been the main focus of our members’ concerns, the following comments concentrate upon this particular location, in the broader context of the impact on the area, before concluding in the light of the evidence and arguments presented.
Site Location
The Arena site is located off Green Lanes, on the border of Harringay Ward, and is only accessible for traffic via Williamson Road. We would like to point out that the Royal Mail delivery office cited in the document was replaced last year by another large retail outlet, TK Maxx.
Traffic
This is an extremely busy shopping/leisure venue. Williamson Road is already so congested that staff are specially employed to deal with traffic problems. These staff have been threatened, and even assaulted, on occasions because the traffic congestion in and out of the site is so bad, especially in peak periods such as December.
Green Lanes itself is no better, and the traffic flow is further exacerbated by the no through routes for vehicles via either Hermitage Road or the Gardens roads. Green Lanes cannot cope with any more traffic in its present configuration. Any new development will undoubtably bring greater traffic and hence further stress to the area.
This has been acknowledged by the Council itself in the Local Plan: Strategic Policies 2013-26, which states ‘movement in and around the centre is an issue because of the high level of vehicles along Green Lanes’ (p107).
Air Quality
As noted in the Local Plan, ‘the whole borough is an Air Quality Management Area (AQMA), and has particularly high levels of pollution from nitrogen dioxide and particulate matter. The dominant source is .. road transport ..’(p138).
It is well known, via a variety of public health indices, that this problem is particularly relevant to Green Lanes, and the residents who already live both in the flats above commercial premises and in the adjacent Ladder and Gardens roads. Any major developments, on the proposed scale can only lead to a further deterioration of air quality levels of which, as you will be aware, Haringey Borough is already currently 88% higher than European approved levels for air quality.
Flood Risk
This is obviously a very topical concern. The site is in a Critical Drainage Area, which is self-evident given that the corner of Green Lanes and Williamson Road is already prone to sizable areas of water accumulation owing to poor drainage. The effects of a proposed underground car park are potentially very alarming with an unknown impact on the water table over the surrounding area.
High Density Housing
The site is not suitable for high density or high rise buildings. To suggest that up to 8 storeys could be achieved without any negative impact on existing amenity is frankly ludicrous. This is not an area of high rise development and the Local Plan makes it clear that it is not acceptable to put up ‘tall and large buildings … which are substantially taller than their neighbours’, and that ‘Haringey is characterised by predominately low-rise (2-3 storey) residential suburban development across the borough, and 3-4 store developments in town centres’ (p112).
We all agree with that view. There are no 8 storey buildings in the immediate area in Haringey, where the preponderant structures are late Victorian terraces.
Open Space
It is disgraceful to imply that because Finsbury Park is nearby, there is no need to be concerned about private open space in proposed future development on the site. This is a particularly cynical justification for a densely packed and unattractive development.
Public Transport
The buses along Green Lanes are already extremely busy and it is not always possible even to get on the very regular route 29 at certain times. Similarly tubes at Manor House and trains at Harringay are often full to bursting, with the concept of a ‘rush hour’ seeming to apply for ever longer periods of the day. The nearby large residential development adjacent to Manor House (LB Hackney) which is underway will of course add to these problems. Saturdays and particularly Sundays are also extremely busy for the transport system in the Green Lanes area, with buses regularly caught up in nose-to-tail congestion between the railway bridge and the St Ann’s junction.
Medical Services
GP surgeries in the area are already seriously overstretched. It is extremely difficult to get an appointment to see a doctor, which in turn has contributed to overcrowding and lengthy waits at A & E departments. Only this month (February 2014) problems emerged at one of our local hospitals (N. Middlesex) with ambulances stacking up outside A & E before they could gain access. NHS England has revealed that the number of emergency vehicles waiting for longer than 30 minutes at the N. Middlesex has increased dramatically from an average of 12/week (Dec 2012-Feb 2013) to an average of 88/week (Dec 2013-Feb 2014). There have also been proposals to downgrade facilities at our nearest major hospital, The Whittington, and of course St Ann’s is not a general hospital and two-thirds of the site will be devoted to housing, as noted in these proposals (S1).
Schools
It is well-known that there is already a shortage of places for children under 8 years old throughout the area. Locally, South Harringay Junior School (close to the Arena site) is having to extend to 3 form entry for Year 3 from September 2014, and there is a similar pressure on the Infants School to expand to cope with ever-increasing numbers. If this is the situation already, the problems which will arise as a result of the proposed developments can readily be imagined. Local schools cannot continue to expand on demand.
Conclusion
Residents fully appreciate the need for new development, especially housing, but it is the sheer scale and cumulative impact of so many proposals in a small and already over-crowded corner of the borough which is our over-riding concern; particularly when adequate funding for new infrastructure/facilities is so unlikely.
The council is proposing to construct a very large, high-density housing development at the Arena site, in the Green Lanes area context of:
Serious traffic congestion
Poor air quality
Questionable drainage
Over-stretched public transport
Over-crowded surgeries, hospitals and schools
This in turn could well be accompanied by all the other adjacent and nearby site proposals, as noted in points 1 -7 on the first page of this letter. We believe that this is simply unworkable as a blueprint for future development in such a compact and already heavily populated area.
We therefore urge that the Arena Retail Park should retain the integrity of its existing name and remain a thriving shopping/leisure centre for the surrounding area. Given all of the other housing development proposals (some of which are already well advanced, as at St Ann’s Hospital and Hampden Road), the Arena plan is a proposal too far. It should be removed from the Site Allocations Document.
Ian Sygrave
Chair
On Behalf of the LCSP
_______________________________________
The GRA's submission is here:
Gardens Residents’ Association’s submission on Haringey Council’s 20 year Planning and Regeneration Proposals, 24th February 2014
General Observations
Given the importance of the decisions made within the document and their potential effect on the built environment, the GRA would welcome clarity from the council on how these proposals are made and by whom. Is this carried out in-house by the council or have design professionals been consulted? Many aspects of the ‘Design Priciples’ are not suited to their proposed locations and do not take account of site specific issues.
It is interesting that the ‘Implementation Consideration’ section begins with analysis of how much money will be generated for the council. It feels as though the proposals are based purely on economics and building as many houses as possible on sites, rather than first considering the relationship to the surrounding context, scale of proposals, quality of spaces, etc.
We would suggest that existing council housing sites should be looked at the same time as new housing site in the borough. Are there existing sites which could be redeveloped to increase density and housing numbers?
S1 St Ann’s Hospital.
The Gardens Residents Association (GRA) have been involved in this development from the outset with 2 representatives attending regular consultative meetings. The GRA have successfully campaigned to reduce heights to an acceptable level, and taking these reassurances into account the GRA accepts this development. It has been agreed that the height of residential buildings on the site would be in keeping with the surrounding area: no higher than 2 storeys opposite the houses on Warwick Gardens and rising across the site towards the East no higher than 4 storeys to suit adjacent buildings.
Through the public consultation in summer 2013 it was proposed that the South West corner of the site become an access through from the Development through Haringey Homes Car Park into Warwick Gardens. The GRA and in particular local residents who live next to the proposed access route have not been adequately consulted. Residents have been in contact with the GRA and have expressed great concern with the proposal mainly due to the likelihood that crime will increase as a result of this access point. The access point will create a perfect escape route from criminal activity such as muggings, burglary, and theft from vehicles ----- creating a route of escape from either the new development or from the Gardens/ Green Lanes.
Our local St Ann’s and Harringay SNT (Met Police) also oppose the proposal and Sgt Jon Sayer is working to prevent this access point as the local police recognise the potential of this also being a hot spot for crime due to its secluded location and lack of surveillance from neighbouring properties.
The GRA also oppose the removal of Mobile phone transmitter masts from the site and recommend that these masts should be incorporated into the proposed Green space within the development keeping them away from residential properties. The proposal for the existing masts to be relocated in the Gardens due to the redevelopment is unacceptable.
S2 Greater Ashfield Road
If such a development proceeded, we would suggest the introduction of live work units for historical reasons and due to the presence of other industrial units around the local area. The development would without doubt bring increased traffic to the local area. This area has 3 road closures in place, which has displaced the traffic through the Gardens, Tiverton Estate, St Ann’s Road, Green Lanes and Wightman Road causing massive congestion issues and community tension over the 15 years since these closures were put in place. Haringey Council must consider these issues and how to deal with them in the long term.
In reference to opening up the Railway Arch no: 2018 at Doncaster Gardens see item S4. If there are investigations into opening up Arch 2018, Haringey Council should also investigate Arch 2019 in St Ann’s Hospital.
S3: Vale Road / Tewkesbury Road
Comments as above for S2
S2 Arena Retail Park
The GRA oppose the proposal to open up the Railway arch no: 2018 at Doncaster Gardens, N4.
This site has been a well-established local community asset for12 years - since 2002 - and has been fundraised for and built as a Community Garden by local residents. It used to be an entrance roadway to the famous but now demolished Haringey Stadium. The site fell into disrepair when the Haringey Stadium site was developed and no one took ownership of the strip of land and railway arch at the end of Doncaster Gardens for some 15 years (approx 1986 to 2001).
The open railway archway caused serious problems with vandalism, trespassing, andcrime,including prostitution, and provided escape routes for muggers from the Sainsbury’s cash point machine, and caused maintenance issues to local residents and the Railway Company. Opening up the archway will increase crime in Wiltshire Gardens, Finsbury Park Ave and Doncaster Gardens, Stanhope Gardens and beyond, as well as to the Arena Estate.
Below are the aims of the Community Garden. Combatting rime and ensuring community safety were the main reasons for its original development by local residents.
The aims of the Community Garden are; (Taken from the management Plan)
• Is a crime and safety initiative aiming at reducing local crime.
• Encourages gardening.
• Has created a local meeting space for our multicultural community.
• Enhances the local environment and is cared for by residents.
• Meets social needs of small children, parents, elderly, disabled, mental health patients, and gives a rest area for all.
• Has created ownership by the community of the local environment through regular maintenance days and events.
The proposal to open up the archway would inevitably demolish the Community Garden and precipitate the removal of a community asset and local pocket park.
The Garden is a local focal point for community events spanning12 years, which have included;
Outdoor film events, Yearly Summer Fairs, Halloween, Carols, regular educational workshops for children and young adults, Xmas tree recycling gardening events, Tool bank, hire of community equipment to other local groups and schools.
On average 1500 local people use the site throughout the year for various activities.
The garden is a multi award winning space which has 23 local & national awards to date including best Community Garden in London, eight consecutive years holder of Green Flag Award and five time winner of the RHS London in Bloom Outstanding Award winner to name a few.
The GRA will oppose the loss of a much loved community asset and will fight to save the space for all.
The GRA opposes the scale of the proposed development and its relationship to the surrounding buildings. The proposal for an eight story development on the Sainsbury’s site is unacceptable and the GRA would only accept a maximum of four storeys. This would be in keeping with the tallest buildings that front the site on the west of Green Lanes. The height of the buildings should be reduced towards the north, east and south boundaries where the site adjoins housing estates of the same scale.
The two storey houses within the Gardens are just 20m from the edge of the site, separated only by a railway line. Therefore the proposed scale of the development would compromise the private amenity of hundreds of dwellings within the Gardens - creating serious overlooking issues.
As the site is due south of the gardens there could be severe loss of natural light to houses in the Gardens, with the overbearing eight storey buildings casting shadows to the north over the Gardens houses.
We have great concern over traffic and traffic management in the Arena Development as these have been major problems for this site. The development as it stands has one junction for traffic, which causes extreme congestion at peak times.
The GRA recognises that the existing design of the Arena Development is not suited to its location or context. The existing design has been lead by vehicle access and is very unsuccessful. The GRA would welcome improvements to the design of the site to create an appropriate density of building and carefully designed pedestrian access, inline with the points above. A thorough redesign of the overground station, access and embankment would be welcome and a positive for the area as a whole.
S5 Finsbury Park Bowling Alley
The GRA are very concerned that any development on this site would lose this important leisure facility. Great concern is also expressed at the possibility of buildings up to 15 stories high, and we would oppose this.…
d Q&A of the plans to develop our part of the borough over the next 20 years.
My aim in attending was to better understand what is planned and the status of the current plans. I'm not sure that I got the complete picture, but I'm certainly better informed. I provide my understanding of this issue below.
What the Plans are about
The current plans are fundamental to how our area will change and develop over the coming 20 years. Make no mistake about it; what gets agreed in these plans will amount to an unchallengeable legal commitment to development. And, these plans are not about fiddling around the edges; they see significant development in our neighbourhood, covering as much as 15-20% of the land area of Harringay. Even if no project affects your road, these plans will affect your neighbourhood.
Where the Plans Come From
As I understand it, a key driver for this planning is top down. The Mayor's London Plan requires Haringey to submit plans to meet certain development targets over the next 20 years. Most particularly, this means housing targets. Haringey has been told that it has to find space for 1,502 new homes each year for the next 20 years.
What the Plans Mean
If the council fails to submit appropriate plans, in effect it concedes all decision-making powers to the Mayor and the Planning Inspectorate. So, as I understand it, the borough's choices are restricted, but there is still some element of choice about where in the borough and in what form development happens.
Once the plans are approved, they commit the Council to what they contain. This means that if planning applications are made in accordance with the plans, the Council is legally obliged to approve them. There will be no second bite of the cherry, no appeals, no representations.
The Council will also be given powers to compulsorily purchase any of the sites included.
So, be warned, once these plans are agreed, that's it; the die is cast.
What's in the Plans
The Sites Allocation Development Plan Document is the Council's first draft at responding to its statutory duties. It does two things:
1. It identifies the suggested places in the borough where development will happen.
2. It suggests what kind of development will happen in each place.
The plan includes two types of site:
a. Site Allocations
b. Housing Trajectory Sites.
As I understand it, the essential difference between the two is simply scale. Site Allocations are large developments; Housing Trajectory Sites are smaller housing developments.
Seven places in Harringay are included:
1. On Hampden Road by Hornsey Station Development (Housing Trajectory Site)
2. The Jewsons Yard on Wightman Road (Housing Trajectory Site)
3. Vale Road (Site Allocation)
4. Arena Retail Park (Site Allocation)
5. "Greater Ashfield Road" (Site Allocation)
6. St Ann's Hospital (Site Allocation).
7. BDC/Hawes & Curtis site (Site Allocation)
For the site allocations, you can read in the plan what is planned for each place. No narrative is provided at this stage for the housing trajectory sites.
To give you some sense of the scale of change, at Sainsbury's the plan envisages putting the car park underground and developing the site with eight storey housing units. Almost the whole of the Harringay Warehouse district is zoned for development. In this area, the development is likely to be intensive with a high proportion of multi-floor units. These represent huge changes to the physical appearance of the area, as well as to the population size and composition.
What Influence Can we all Have
Not all change is bad. Some will be positive and some will have downsides. As I understand it, these plans are at the broad brush stage. The Council has been given targets, officers have identified places they think are the ones that can be used to meet those targets and have made suggestions on what sort of development might take place on each.
So here's what's to play for, areas we can influence:
1. It's very unlikely (but not impossible) that a site will be excluded at this stage. If that is to happen, another site would have to be found to carry the development planned for the excluded site.
2. Thoughts about the type of development planned? (For example, the Sainsbury's area is zoned for high-rise housing development? Is that the right use? If so is it the right type of housing?)
3. Thoughts about the implications of the developments (For example, last night the knock-on effect of traffic was mentioned by Cllr Alexander and a member of the public raised the implications for local health and education provision.).
3. Opportunities the plans might present for our area? (For example, with all the planned development, an examination of traffic flows including local road closures like Hermitage Road may be on the cards. The plan mentions the poor access to Finsbury Park from Harringay. I've been writing about a Park gate for harringay for years. Could that be part of the plans?)
As I understand it, at this stage the plans are broad brush and the Council is asking for a broad brush, as well as more specific responses. Last night we were told that if the community feels strongly, the Council will have to look again at its plans.
Still Confused
This is complex stuff. I think I may have hold of one end of a piece of string, but I certainly don't claim to understand the whole shebang.
The formal consultation for this stage of the plans runs until 7th March. If you'd like to learn more there are supposed to be drop-in events coming up at our two local libraries.
AlternativeIy, we could try something else. I was quite impressed with Steve Kelly, the new Assistant Director for Planning who was at the meeting last night and I suggested a few things to him in a conversation afterwards. Firstly I asked if he'd be prepared to arrange for a limited response online Q&A on HoL (to understand the process and ask questions - not to respond to the consultation). I also asked if it would be possible to arrange for someone to attend an informal meeting locally to respond to questions. Steve seems open to both possibilities. Is anyone interested?
Responding to the Plans
1. Formal Response
Complete an online survey
By phone on 020 8489 1479
By email to ldf@haringey.gov.uk
2. Another Option
If enough people are interested, we could arrange to meet informally, discuss the plans and possibly think about submitting a collective response.
Who's in Charge
Players appearing for the Council team were:
Cllr Joseph Ejiofor, Cabinet Member for Planning and Enforcement
Stephen Kelly, Asst Director Planning
Gavin Ball, Planning Policy Officer
…
e high street being scruffy and the area being a couple of tube stops further out, than we were used to. We were looking at one bed ex-council flats in Finsbury Park/Hornsey/Holloway, but discovered we could get a Victorian conversion with two huge bedrooms, two bathrooms, a giant open-plan living space and a south-facing garden, for the same price...it was a 'no brainer'.
The area has the same problems as most areas in London, ie litter, some people not putting their bins away, bad taste choices for the front of houses, some unkempt rentals...no different to what you'll have been used to in Brixton. For every scuffy UPVC door, there is someone who trims their hedges and looks after their window boxes though!
The upside is that the collection of roads (Mannock/Sidar/Boundry/Langham/Stanmore/Waldeck/Carlingford) tucked behind Turnpike Lane tube/bus station are quiet and really quite nice. Lots of trees, slow traffic (thanks to speed humps and the fact that lots of them are not through-roads) it's just nice and peaceful. There are no big blocks of flats or estates in the area, so no noisy or loutish gangs of kids loitering around.
There are four lovely parks and recreation grounds, within spitting distance. Downhills Park is our favourite, with tennis courts, cafe and children's play area. You'll also find a nice family cafe in Lordship Recreaction Ground, with great cakes and snacks at less than half the price of the yummy mummy cafes of Crouch End...though they are only a stroll away, if you fancy.
Wood Green High Street IS still a bit scruffy, even after it's recent refrub, but it's so convenient. We have Lidl, Morrisons, M&S, Tesco, Sainsburys and tons shops and stalls, selling fresh fish, seafood, fruit and veg. There is also BHS, Mothercare, River Island, Topman, Clarks, New Look, TK Maxx, Primark, H&M and varies sports shops...so convenient, I hardly ever need to pop to the West End to shop now...all we're missing are Zara and Mango!
Green Lanes is AMAZING for eating/going out. The vast array of Turkish restaurants have always served fantastic food at brilliant prices, but thanks to semi-gentrification of the area, we can now go for fab cocktails, gourmet burgers, italian, tapas, swedish or steaks...all within 10 mins walk of home. There are some good pubs and indie/jazz bars in the area too. Our local pub (The Westbury) has had a 400k refit, by the owner of the Jolly Butchers in Stoke Newington and The Wrestler in Highgate. It's really nice, gorgeous decor, art on the walls, friendly staff, good food and fab wines/beers/local ales at very reasonable prices.
The area on the whole has changed in the time we've been here, there are definitely more young professionals, hipster/arty/tendy types, but thankfully it's still really kept a feeling of diversity and being 'real' London. Having grown up in Elephant and Castle myself, I love the mix and the hub-bub of different groups of people living together.
As someone else said, the local Primary (Belmont) is rated Good and has previously got an Outstanding, I'd be happy to send my son there. There are so many young families in the area, loads of play groups and events, plus a big choice of nurseries/childminders, when that time comes around for you.
As well as having lots to enjoy in our immediate area, it's very easy to get to Muswell Hill, Crouch End, Stoke Newington, Ally Pally etc for an endless array of places to eat/drink/shop and things to do, your choices are endless.
On a final note, there is a nice commnuity spirit (as you can tell, by the lovely, helpful folk on this forum). People here are always happy to recommed local trades people, or lend each other tools/ladders/picnic tables, let others know about fun events in the area, or just give helpful tips and advice. We know loads of our neighbours and feed each others cats/water each other's plants when on holiday. It's just nice to say hello to people in the street!
I hope this long (babbling?) reply has helped you somewhat, good luck with your move!
Sarah …