Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Update on plans of where to spend TfL's £1.2m for Harringay
In my last post on this subject which covered the first meeting, I wrote "This really is a great opportunity to make some significant quality of life enhancing changes to our neighbourhood."
That meeting was on 13th October. Last week, on 24th, there was a follow up meeting. We were presented with a summary of the first meeting interpreting what the consultants described as "what people think they want". (Yup, I picked them up on that one.).
You'll see the range of ideas covered is quite broad, but then we were encouraged to be broad. We were also told to think about plans for the Green Lanes Corridor, not just the road itself.
At last week's meeting we were presented with three plans. Copies of the diagrams representing them are attached below. In each case I was at pains to get a very clear articulation from the consultants of what the objective is for each plan. I have recorded these below. The plans are:
1. Duckett's Common
Primary objective: Though not clear from the diagram, the primary objective is "to create a safer" pedestrian crossing at Frobisher Road".
Secondary objective: To create more public space (in the area opposite the Queen's head, by moving the point that the feeder road from West Green Road joins Green Lanes).
2. Salisbury/Warham Street improvements
Primary objective: "a better shopping environment"
This plan involves widening pavements between Hewitt and Warham. Buses will be prioritised. This will have the effect of constricting the flow of all other traffic along Green Lanes.
3. Sainsbury's
Primary objective: Ease traffic flow (by eating in to the Arena Car park sufficiently so as to 'indent' the bus stop)
Secondary objectives:
a. to make it easier for pedestrians to move about (through shifting crossing opposite McDonalds to north of the Bridge and by improving the crossing at the Green Lanes end of Williamson Road).
b. to improve the entrance to Harringay
So that's yer £1.2m gone. At the first meeting expectations were raised that the safety, quality of life and health issues created by high levels of traffic in residential streets could be addressed.
This time round - who knows why - all options on that score have been closed down.
I'm aware that the Green Lanes crossing at Frobisher has been a key concern for local people fro a number of years. So that one gets a tick from me. But, actually the major money in that plan will be spent creating a public space. Very nice; laudable idea, but this is in in an area where we already have public spaces Duckett's Common and Green Gate Common. More would be nice but are not a priority at that particular point. And for that reason, newpublicspace, you're fired.
Wider pavements and stuff between Hewitt & Warham. Again nice, but not my priority.
Moving the bus stop in? I can live with that as a reflection of resident's priorities. Since the council messed up that end of Harringay we've needed something improved. This will help somewhat. And I can see the sense of easing/changing pedestrian movements in that area. Sure why not.
So in summary I see a couple of nuggets that reflect what residents have said in several surveys that they want, but I don't see these plans taken as a whole as reflecting the priorities of local people.
Ach, who cares.....only £1.2m......it's not our money......let's just let them spend it how they want, eh.
Anyway, let's try something new to comment on & discuss this issue:
Vote and comment on the plans and add your own ideas here
Tags for Forum Posts: consultation, green lanes corridor, harringay regeneration 2012-13, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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They'll be able to use the traffic lights on the other side of the bus stop to get back into the lane.
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Permalink Reply by Maddy on
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The indented bus-stop by Homebase doesn't look nearly long enough to hold two buses at the same time, potentially both a bendy (29) and a double-decker. Which would leave one of them either stuck across the junction or backing up the traffic lights under the bridge. I'm not sure the buses hold up traffic that much, as they are usually stuck in traffic themselves long enough to load/unload.
What about reducing traffic speed on (at least the Grand Parade section) of Green Lanes to 20mph to match the rest of the area? It would be safer for pedestrians and make the "corridor" less of a race-track.
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The 29 won't be a bendy bus for much longer, but that is beside the point. Much of the problem with leaving he Arena when the traffic is heavy is that very few cars per minute get past the combination of the controlled pedestrian crossing/intersection at Endymion Rd and the fact that it just takes one bus blocking one lane for even half a phase of the lights. As for planning for two busses at a time, why not plan for three?
They've taken the traffic lights away from Willoughby Rd up near Duckett's Common, a shame they didn't think they could do the same with Endymion.
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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Am I right in concluding:
• There is no bus lanes on parts of Grande Parade?
• Two way traffic at the junction in and out of St Annes Rd (currently just East bound allowed)
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I'm beginning to see the downside of publishing these plans without the excellent explanation from the designers.
Green Lanes will lose its bus lane (which is bad for cyclists IMHO) between the Queen's Head and Sainsbury's. They are going to allow buses to have priority into this area and now allow traffic to over take. This means they won't need the bus lanes and can use that space for a dual use pedestrian/parking area.
The only thing that I saw being a problem (apart from this must cost more than the money allocated) was that there was even worse provision for cycling than we have at the moment.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Yes, it's a shame the consultants couldn't have provided short paras to describe each option. But I hope there were enough of us there to fill the gap, John. My view is that, by hook or by crook, as wide an audience as possible ought to have the chance to see what's being proposed.
Fancy adding some short paras of explanation?
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Can someone explain the plug theory to me as it does not sound that realistic, unless you are a fairly speedy cyclist?
I have not managed to open the files on my phone so am commenting blind, but seems like an odd set of priorities to me. Very disappointed to hear that cycling might be potentially harder considering that Wightman Rd still not a great road fo it.
Any idea why Hewitt to Warham identified as the wide pavement section, or which side of the road involved? I had assumed west (heading north) but not sure from other discussions?)
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Permalink Reply by linka on
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I don't really see how this will work. As someone who turns left onto Green Lanes on a bike every day at the beginning of my bike commute, I thank the Traffic Gods for the bus lane, which gives me a more or less clear space (apart from the parked vans) to move through until the next bus stop. At that time of day, the traffic is so jammed that I don't even attempt to filter through the 'stationary environment' (very, very narrow spaces on Green Lanes, and many non-stationary pedestrians, who can't check every crack in the traffic). So I hang about and wait for the bus to clear my way forwards, which doesn't take too long... in a bus lane.
I'm not sure where the left turn across bus lane incidents have happened here, would be interested to know how many and where. I'm a bit baffled by a bus lane removal on this road of all roads...
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Jono, if it's made tougher for traffic to travel on Green Lanes, won't it likley be displaced to Wightman and thence to the Ladder rung roads?
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Permalink Reply by WightmanPaul on
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A lot of money spent to widen the pavements and ensure it is impossible to overtake buses. Even slower traffic flow. More vehicles filtering onto the Ladder in frustration. No filtering onto the Gardens. Nothing done to restore Warham Road to civilisation. If the bus stop at Williamson is responsible for blocking traffic, why won't all the other stops on the narrowed Grand Parade? On the plus side, getting rid of the bus lane will give more parking places - good for the traders.
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Permalink Reply by Nick Yates on
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Hi All,
I've been an avid reader of HOL for 6 months now and this is my first post! Firstly got to say what a fantastic community this that has made such a difference for someone new to the area.
Now to the important stuff. It would be great to see the digital bus display back at the manor house bus station to help everyone decide whether to walk or wait for a bus.
I'd also like to see some investment in cycling on green lanes. Currently the section from the retail park junction, under thae bridge and into the main shopping area is extremely dangerous for cyclists. The narow streets, car parking, railings and manouevering buses mean that this is a real hazard for cyclists.
This is compounded by some really deep potholes that are a danger to drivers, cylcists and pedestrians.
Thats my two penny worth, thanks for reading.
Nick
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