Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Traffic Survey beta test feedback
After yesterday morning's beta run I'd like to collect some feedback online. Even if you didn't take part in the survey I'd welcome suggestions with regard to problems we had.
1. I thought the 4WD/car distinction was rubbish. Commercial vehicles needed more thought too. What about taxis and driving instructors?
2. I wished I'd had a proper clipboard.
3. I tried to do two routes through one intersection at once and it was very, very hard.
4. We did this in light Saturday morning traffic, I don't think we'll cope with just one person per route for a work day morning run.
5. I don't know about anyone else but an hour was my limit.
6. Should we be marking when the lights change so we know how many cars get through?
Anyone else?
Someone has suggested that we need an objective for this survey other than my curiosity. My main motivation behind this is that we need to know about how traffic flows around us, especially if the council don't know. The closing off of the gardens and the one way system have, according to anecdotal evidence, dramatically affected some roads on the ladder much more than others (i.e. unfairly). There is nothing to say the council can't do more "blind" tinkering and make things even worse. I hope that analysis of the data from this test will at the very least put a mark down that things must improve from where they are now.
I would very much like to not be the only person actually enforcing the 7.5t limit on my road and would welcome it being dropped to 7t just to get around manufacturers who build vehicles according to the legislation.
1. I thought the 4WD/car distinction was rubbish. Commercial vehicles needed more thought too. What about taxis and driving instructors?
2. I wished I'd had a proper clipboard.
3. I tried to do two routes through one intersection at once and it was very, very hard.
4. We did this in light Saturday morning traffic, I don't think we'll cope with just one person per route for a work day morning run.
5. I don't know about anyone else but an hour was my limit.
6. Should we be marking when the lights change so we know how many cars get through?
Anyone else?
Someone has suggested that we need an objective for this survey other than my curiosity. My main motivation behind this is that we need to know about how traffic flows around us, especially if the council don't know. The closing off of the gardens and the one way system have, according to anecdotal evidence, dramatically affected some roads on the ladder much more than others (i.e. unfairly). There is nothing to say the council can't do more "blind" tinkering and make things even worse. I hope that analysis of the data from this test will at the very least put a mark down that things must improve from where they are now.
I would very much like to not be the only person actually enforcing the 7.5t limit on my road and would welcome it being dropped to 7t just to get around manufacturers who build vehicles according to the legislation.
Tags for Forum Posts: traffic, trafficsurvey, trafficsurvey2010
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by andy thomas on
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1. It was pretty much as I expected with the hardest part being able to read the reg numbers and write them down quickly enough - but legibly too. My ballpoint went on the blink (sticky ball and and some splodges of ink) so a spare pen is advisable.
2. On the route I covered (traffic turning left out of Wightman Rd into Turnpike Lane heading towards Hornsey High St/Crouch End) vehicles from the centre lane at the lights in Wightman Rd sometimes turned left as well as those in the left lane, so it was difficult to note numbers quickly enough and sometimes impossible to read the number of the vehicle from the centre lane as it was obscured by those from the left lane.
3. Personally, I would find a small voice recorder with voice activated start/stop (Olympus Pearlcorder, dictaphone type thing) much more useful than pen & paper as I could just say "Van DFN, car CVG, van JPY, etc" into it and transcribe it to paper sheets later. I've got one of these gadgets but you can do this on most mobile phones too.
4. How do we classify people carriers/MPVs? I put some down as cars but others which I knew to be 4WD went into the 4WD/SUV category.
5. I had no problem doing this for an hour and could do several hours if required.
6. I marked the end of each traffic lights cycle with a line and the time - thought it might be useful extra data?The cycle is roughly 2.5 minutes long.
7. @John: I've got several clipboards if you want one?
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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I agree with points above.
Right at the start, I dropped No 1 pen on its point. Take several.
Sunscreen and sun hat would have been advisable.
Camping stool was useful.
It would be useful to note when lights change but this would be a separate analysis.
Really we need simultaneous counting at every Ladder road to evaluate traffic distribution - are people channelled into Lausane or do they prefer Raleigh or Falkland ?
The distinction between > 7.5 T and less than didn't work ( Yellow / red stripey markings ) as many vehicles that are obviously not 7.5 T, such as police and ambulance vehicles, Haringey bulky rubbish collectors, sport these as an aid to visibility.
I too found my concentration going after 1 hour. I would guess overall, with occasional missed plates and dodgy recording in different categories, my accuracy was about 90%.
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with occasional missed plates and dodgy recording in different categories
I had that problem too on 2 occasions - with 10-12 cars coming round the corner in 2 lanes, I missed plates and got a van into the car column. I marked these incidents on the sheet with an exclamation mark so could compare notes laterand fix the errors. Or maybe John M's system will do that automatically anyway.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Really we need simultaneous counting at every Ladder road to evaluate traffic distribution - are people channelled into Lausane or do they prefer Raleigh or Falkland ?
Agree and that requires more people. This was just a test run. There's a reason these companies can charge £100K for a "holistic traffic survey"... isn't there?
I saw very few of the large commercial vehicles that we often see during the working day. In the mornings Turnpike Lane can be purely busses and very big trucks, it's no wonder some of them decide to take a cheeky shortcut. I'm sure the 7.5t category will prove more useful during the week.
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There's a reason these companies can charge £100K for a "holistic traffic survey"... isn't there?
Well it's a rip off really - consultants can charge what they like, more or less. 30 years ago a well known consultancy based in Epsom, Surrey used to charge about £2k a day plus VAT for any work they did, no matter how difficult or simple it was. This included traffic surveys where students were employed for then princely sum of £20 a day to sit by noisy, fume-filled junctions along major roads with a mechanical counter in each hand, one for cars & bikes, the other for bigger vehicles. Everyone involved did quite well out of these surveys although the accuracy was somewhat suspect.
Lausanne Road gridlocked again this morning, diesel fumes coming in through open windows, etc...
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Consultants can charge what they like but it's the customers who agree to pay. If the latter dug their heels in, the rates would soon come down :-)
Abandoned my car half way up Lausanne, by the way .
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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I use to do these surveys as a student, kept me in beer money over the summers.
Some of this evidence is very much anecdotal as the people who shout loudest get heard. I am not arguing that the flow of the traffic is equal but there will be heavy traffic on some roads where there isn't currently a loud voice. I think Effingham gets more 7.5 plus than any roads, some legally because of Medlocks and many use it as a rat run because there is so many heavy vehicles using this route and they can use Medlocks as an excuse.
John what is your goal, is it the flow of all traffic or the flow of heavy and commercial traffic and what is the point of recording number plates, other than to record illegal movement? Genuine query. iphones have voice recorders now so could be used to record voice information. I also have a box of clickers should they be useful? i couldn't help out on Saturday morning as I forgot it was NHP school fair.
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and what is the point of recording number plates, other than to record illegal movement?
It's not to record "illegal movement", it's to plot the route of a vehicle through the Ladder roads system by tallying vehicle sitings from different monitoring points.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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A rip-off? I would never dismiss professional skills, experience and knowledge.
And: "the workman is worthy of his hire."
But the 'rate for the job' and "value for money" are different issues.
I'd assumed that consultancy was an example of a Giffen Good. That these folk are the Estée Lauder of bureaucracy; the more astronomical their fees, the greater the demand for their services.
One advantage of the councils' financial meltdown is that Haringey councillors are finally beginning to get to the bottom of just how many consultants and "interim managers" we have.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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A rip-off? I would never dismiss professional skills, experience and knowledge.
I'm in consultancy too (but not traffic management) - the big players get paid obscene daily rates, the small players get paid about the same rate as domestic cleaners after expenses, taxes, etc have been deducted.
I'd assumed that consultancy was an example of a Giffen Good. That these folk are the Estée Lauder of bureaucracy; the more astronomical their fees, the greater the demand for their services.
Is that how our council assesses "value for money" then - by the size of their fees?
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It looks as if the traffic lights at the junction of Wightman Road and Turnpike Lane have been adjusted to favour traffic on Turnpike Lane. The green light for cross traffic is now pretty short and leads to a buildup on Wightman.
It would help if they had a filter left towards Muswell Hill, corresponding to the filter right in the opposite direction into Wightman.
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