Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The Name Harringay is a Vehicle for Joined Up Planning.
Sorry this is a bit long, it's about traffic.
Why haven’t I got the Hump with all this Chicanery
The members of the Community of Harringay – The Gardens, the Ladder and the surrounding neighbourhood – wish to bring to the attention of Haringey Councillors and David Lammy MP our concern regarding the diminution of our quality of life – and physical damage to our property – due to the current nature of traffic flow in our area.
We recognise the outcomes of previous efforts made by Council members and officers working with TfL and local traders to resolve issues around the Red Route on Green Lanes and we take this and other significant or innovative traffic management measures in our area, as an indicator that, when the Community express sufficiently vociferously, their will for change, the Council can and will listen and act.
Specifically we believe that the number and size of vehicles using many Ladder roads are too great, that Wightman Road suffers from unacceptably high traffic vibration, volume and variability in traffic speeds and that there is a clear absence of balanced policy on traffic for the Harringay area. Further to this, it is critical to recognise that the problems described arise, in part, as a result of the fragmentation of the area into St Ann’s, The Gardens, Green Lanes, The Ladder and Wightman Road.
We wish to see the following:
• A reduction in the maximum weight of vehicles permitted to use the roads in the Harringay Ladder which are currently restricted to 20mph.
• The inclusion of Wightman Road in the 20mph zone and the installation, following discussion with residents and their representative groups, of the traffic calming measures which would unable this to happen.
• Consultation work performed by or for the Council to ascertain the damage and nuisance arising from traffic vibration.
• A commitment by the Council to recognise the integrated nature of the Harringay area and to begin the necessary work on an effective traffic plan for the area.
Commentary:
For those who are not aware of some of the nuances of this discussion the following may be of interest:
The Gardens used to be open to traffic from St Ann’s but this major traffic change was ‘facilitated’ through the good offices of particular councillors with particular interests.
The original conversion of the Harringay Stadium to retail was rejected by Haringey but the Secretary of State over-ruled. However, the recent ‘improvements’ and the resulting traffic chaos were entirely agreed by the Council.
The Ladder 20mph roads used to be 2-way. Salisbury Road and Warham Road suffered appallingly when traffic which would have filtered through the Gardens was forced down Salisbury Road.
Hermitage Road used to be a through road.
In order for there to be a 20mph limit on a road it is necessary to show that the traffic speed is already low i.e. further physical measures are not needed, or there must be traffic calming measures in place. Otherwise the Police would object. The traffic islands which are in place on Wightman Road count as traffic calming measures but they are too few and far apart, hence the need for a discussion and creative thinking. More islands means fewer parking spaces.
The traders on Green Lanes were very active in having the original Red Route changed to allow parking as it is now along Grand Parade. Their argument being that the rush hour occurs in one direction and at specific times.
Why haven’t I got the Hump with all this Chicanery
The members of the Community of Harringay – The Gardens, the Ladder and the surrounding neighbourhood – wish to bring to the attention of Haringey Councillors and David Lammy MP our concern regarding the diminution of our quality of life – and physical damage to our property – due to the current nature of traffic flow in our area.
We recognise the outcomes of previous efforts made by Council members and officers working with TfL and local traders to resolve issues around the Red Route on Green Lanes and we take this and other significant or innovative traffic management measures in our area, as an indicator that, when the Community express sufficiently vociferously, their will for change, the Council can and will listen and act.
Specifically we believe that the number and size of vehicles using many Ladder roads are too great, that Wightman Road suffers from unacceptably high traffic vibration, volume and variability in traffic speeds and that there is a clear absence of balanced policy on traffic for the Harringay area. Further to this, it is critical to recognise that the problems described arise, in part, as a result of the fragmentation of the area into St Ann’s, The Gardens, Green Lanes, The Ladder and Wightman Road.
We wish to see the following:
• A reduction in the maximum weight of vehicles permitted to use the roads in the Harringay Ladder which are currently restricted to 20mph.
• The inclusion of Wightman Road in the 20mph zone and the installation, following discussion with residents and their representative groups, of the traffic calming measures which would unable this to happen.
• Consultation work performed by or for the Council to ascertain the damage and nuisance arising from traffic vibration.
• A commitment by the Council to recognise the integrated nature of the Harringay area and to begin the necessary work on an effective traffic plan for the area.
Commentary:
For those who are not aware of some of the nuances of this discussion the following may be of interest:
The Gardens used to be open to traffic from St Ann’s but this major traffic change was ‘facilitated’ through the good offices of particular councillors with particular interests.
The original conversion of the Harringay Stadium to retail was rejected by Haringey but the Secretary of State over-ruled. However, the recent ‘improvements’ and the resulting traffic chaos were entirely agreed by the Council.
The Ladder 20mph roads used to be 2-way. Salisbury Road and Warham Road suffered appallingly when traffic which would have filtered through the Gardens was forced down Salisbury Road.
Hermitage Road used to be a through road.
In order for there to be a 20mph limit on a road it is necessary to show that the traffic speed is already low i.e. further physical measures are not needed, or there must be traffic calming measures in place. Otherwise the Police would object. The traffic islands which are in place on Wightman Road count as traffic calming measures but they are too few and far apart, hence the need for a discussion and creative thinking. More islands means fewer parking spaces.
The traders on Green Lanes were very active in having the original Red Route changed to allow parking as it is now along Grand Parade. Their argument being that the rush hour occurs in one direction and at specific times.
Tags for Forum Posts: ladder traffic solutions, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
-
The figure quoted last year for the cost of this survey sounded to me like the classic "too expensive, bugger off" answer that I expect the greedy to give to the ignorant. £100K is very round and very scary. I am sure we could do this job professionally enough ourselves but it would cost some of us a day off work.
Is anybody else interested?
-
Permalink Reply by Adam on
-
Hugh in your post above, was the word 'evidence' supposed to be a link to the survey results?
-
Permalink Reply by matt on
-
We were delighted to see that TfL have included a sum of money in the LIP settlement to be used in Wightman Road for traffic calming measures and initial studies and consultation will take place with local ward councillors in April 2009.
Karen, thank you for letting us know. This goes some way to dealing with issues discussed here regards Wightman Rd. Please keep us informed.
The proposed area assembly meeting about the issue of traffic (in about a months time hopefully) should be a useful next point of focus for all.
-
-
It would be good if we could have our "pooh" together before then. No chance of Mr Lammy turning up as a member of the audience to give them a grilling? One of my favourite comments from the recent meeting at St John's was on HMOs and how the council found money for parking enforcement but not planning enforcement. We need to show them a revenue stream; there are only a handful of entrances and exits for Harringay - how about a camera enforced congestion charge?
-
Permalink Reply by Alison P on
-
A couple of things have been nagging me about the survey.
Could someone tell me what it is that the survey will actually tell us? Is it 'just' to map and quantify traffic levels objectively in different streets over a period of time? If so, must confess I'm not clear how that translates into £100k worth of work (and I work in a related industry!).
Does data from the survey then get used to analyse what might happen under different traffic managment systems (ie if this road was one way in the other direction, then traffic on this road would increase by X%)? This seems to me to be the big question, and if the survey can't address it, I'm not sure whether it is the holy grail that it might be seen to be.
On Wightman - those ruddy traffic islands are a nightmare. I nearly got knocked off my bike today by a crazy guy in a van who hung behind me until just the point when the road narrowed, and then decided to squeeze through. Scary. Someone on here once suggested a one way Wightman road, using the extra space generated to create a cycle lane and a decent pavement - now that would be radical ... !
-
-
Words such as 'evidence' & figures such as '£100,000' have been used to effectively (as John points out) say to others ''bugger off'', we're ''not doing that'' or ''we're doing it my way''.
The figure of £100,000 has more than likely been plucked out of the air to ward us off. Anyway, we will get a chance to grill the individual who came up with that figure at the 'traffic' area assembly meeting.
And John & Adam & Paul McKay are right: we should meet before then. There will probably be too many people to fit around a kitchen table. I can arrange a meeting space. Just let me know.
-
-
This has been a very interesting discussion with some very good ideas generated. Lets take this forward and come up with a plan/campaign as to how we hope to make changes on this issue. Matt has kindly offered a meeting space. How about Tuesday 17th March at 7.30pm? This is a week before the Traffic Area Assembly on 23rd march (location to be confirmed)
-
Permalink Reply by Hugh on
-
I'm with you on the survey issue, Alison. I don't think we should just take it for granted that it's £100k. As I wrote on the site last year, Richard Jones from Wildmoor (the managing agent for Arena Shopping) told me that they spent about £7,000 on their survey for traffic in Green Lanes (Although it may well be that the result shows that £7k isn't enough!).
At any rate certainly worth challenging what we're told.
-
Permalink Reply by John D on
-
The issue, as always, is enforcement. There seems to be a consensus that Wightman Road should have a 20 mph limit: you could make it 5mph but if there is no way to make sure that it is respected it will have zip all effect on the users.
Couldn't some of the Parking Attendants be diverted from their normal duties of ignoring illegal parking on double yellow lines outside GSF Motors and on Hampden Road outside the mosque and be given camera radar guns? Alternatively, perhaps the proposed speed cushions could incorporate spikes that automatically rise up and tear the bottom out of speeding vehicles ? Adam might like to add that to his collection of ideas :-)
It's a very difficult problem: pedestrian refuges obviously make it easier for pedestrians to cross the road, but as Alison has pointed out, increase the danger to cyclists. Illuminated signs, such as on Priory Road, tend to slow down the responsible drivers but act as a challenge to the speeders.
( I've just seen a Fedex van reversing illegally out of Hampden Road onto Wightman causing traffic on Wightman to swerve round its rear. The car drivers on Wightman refuse to be sensible, bow to the inevitable and let it out, persisting in forcing their way round the van, in the face of oncoming traffic. )
It's not the roads, the signage, the pedestrian refuges that are at fault - it's the behaviour of the selfish, inconsiderate, agressive road users that needs to be addressed. ( I was going to insert the words "minority of " but I'm not sure about that ).
We need consistent and unrelenting enforcement of the existing laws, not new measures. Perhaps the alleged £100k would pay for a couple of officers with speed guns ?
-
-
Not pedestrian refugees. They are a death trap. Concentrate on the raised tables. Not sure what the road engineers call them! As I've said before, the set-up on Hornsey Park (rd) appears to work well with the raised table/pesdestrian crossing and gritted road approaches.
Go and have a look at it when you next wander up to the lovely Wood Green high road. Hornsey Park (rd) is a road with exactly the same issues as Wightman and indeed takes the very same traffic. So there are lessons that can be learnt from measures taken there.
As to enforcement, speed cameras are the best bet. At least two are needed.
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- Next ›
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
