Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The Name Harringay is a Vehicle for Joined Up Planning.
Sorry this is a bit long, it's about traffic.
Why haven’t I got the Hump with all this Chicanery
The members of the Community of Harringay – The Gardens, the Ladder and the surrounding neighbourhood – wish to bring to the attention of Haringey Councillors and David Lammy MP our concern regarding the diminution of our quality of life – and physical damage to our property – due to the current nature of traffic flow in our area.
We recognise the outcomes of previous efforts made by Council members and officers working with TfL and local traders to resolve issues around the Red Route on Green Lanes and we take this and other significant or innovative traffic management measures in our area, as an indicator that, when the Community express sufficiently vociferously, their will for change, the Council can and will listen and act.
Specifically we believe that the number and size of vehicles using many Ladder roads are too great, that Wightman Road suffers from unacceptably high traffic vibration, volume and variability in traffic speeds and that there is a clear absence of balanced policy on traffic for the Harringay area. Further to this, it is critical to recognise that the problems described arise, in part, as a result of the fragmentation of the area into St Ann’s, The Gardens, Green Lanes, The Ladder and Wightman Road.
We wish to see the following:
• A reduction in the maximum weight of vehicles permitted to use the roads in the Harringay Ladder which are currently restricted to 20mph.
• The inclusion of Wightman Road in the 20mph zone and the installation, following discussion with residents and their representative groups, of the traffic calming measures which would unable this to happen.
• Consultation work performed by or for the Council to ascertain the damage and nuisance arising from traffic vibration.
• A commitment by the Council to recognise the integrated nature of the Harringay area and to begin the necessary work on an effective traffic plan for the area.
Commentary:
For those who are not aware of some of the nuances of this discussion the following may be of interest:
The Gardens used to be open to traffic from St Ann’s but this major traffic change was ‘facilitated’ through the good offices of particular councillors with particular interests.
The original conversion of the Harringay Stadium to retail was rejected by Haringey but the Secretary of State over-ruled. However, the recent ‘improvements’ and the resulting traffic chaos were entirely agreed by the Council.
The Ladder 20mph roads used to be 2-way. Salisbury Road and Warham Road suffered appallingly when traffic which would have filtered through the Gardens was forced down Salisbury Road.
Hermitage Road used to be a through road.
In order for there to be a 20mph limit on a road it is necessary to show that the traffic speed is already low i.e. further physical measures are not needed, or there must be traffic calming measures in place. Otherwise the Police would object. The traffic islands which are in place on Wightman Road count as traffic calming measures but they are too few and far apart, hence the need for a discussion and creative thinking. More islands means fewer parking spaces.
The traders on Green Lanes were very active in having the original Red Route changed to allow parking as it is now along Grand Parade. Their argument being that the rush hour occurs in one direction and at specific times.
Why haven’t I got the Hump with all this Chicanery
The members of the Community of Harringay – The Gardens, the Ladder and the surrounding neighbourhood – wish to bring to the attention of Haringey Councillors and David Lammy MP our concern regarding the diminution of our quality of life – and physical damage to our property – due to the current nature of traffic flow in our area.
We recognise the outcomes of previous efforts made by Council members and officers working with TfL and local traders to resolve issues around the Red Route on Green Lanes and we take this and other significant or innovative traffic management measures in our area, as an indicator that, when the Community express sufficiently vociferously, their will for change, the Council can and will listen and act.
Specifically we believe that the number and size of vehicles using many Ladder roads are too great, that Wightman Road suffers from unacceptably high traffic vibration, volume and variability in traffic speeds and that there is a clear absence of balanced policy on traffic for the Harringay area. Further to this, it is critical to recognise that the problems described arise, in part, as a result of the fragmentation of the area into St Ann’s, The Gardens, Green Lanes, The Ladder and Wightman Road.
We wish to see the following:
• A reduction in the maximum weight of vehicles permitted to use the roads in the Harringay Ladder which are currently restricted to 20mph.
• The inclusion of Wightman Road in the 20mph zone and the installation, following discussion with residents and their representative groups, of the traffic calming measures which would unable this to happen.
• Consultation work performed by or for the Council to ascertain the damage and nuisance arising from traffic vibration.
• A commitment by the Council to recognise the integrated nature of the Harringay area and to begin the necessary work on an effective traffic plan for the area.
Commentary:
For those who are not aware of some of the nuances of this discussion the following may be of interest:
The Gardens used to be open to traffic from St Ann’s but this major traffic change was ‘facilitated’ through the good offices of particular councillors with particular interests.
The original conversion of the Harringay Stadium to retail was rejected by Haringey but the Secretary of State over-ruled. However, the recent ‘improvements’ and the resulting traffic chaos were entirely agreed by the Council.
The Ladder 20mph roads used to be 2-way. Salisbury Road and Warham Road suffered appallingly when traffic which would have filtered through the Gardens was forced down Salisbury Road.
Hermitage Road used to be a through road.
In order for there to be a 20mph limit on a road it is necessary to show that the traffic speed is already low i.e. further physical measures are not needed, or there must be traffic calming measures in place. Otherwise the Police would object. The traffic islands which are in place on Wightman Road count as traffic calming measures but they are too few and far apart, hence the need for a discussion and creative thinking. More islands means fewer parking spaces.
The traders on Green Lanes were very active in having the original Red Route changed to allow parking as it is now along Grand Parade. Their argument being that the rush hour occurs in one direction and at specific times.
Tags for Forum Posts: ladder traffic solutions, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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Right Paul. Totally with you on that.
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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I agree with all of this, particularly in relation to Wightman Road, which is a ridiculous road for anyone not in a car (ie pedestrians or cyclists). Not that much fun for drivers either, but at least they have enough space to make their way with relative ease.
I had one question for you and one observation.
The question is what the situation is with Hermitage Road - was that closed to through traffic at the same time as the changes you mention in relation to the Gardens Roads? Was the concern that it would get a huge increase in traffic as a result of the changes. And my observation is to wonder how realistic it is that we'll see a reversal of the situation in the Gardens Rds, given the huge (I presume) benefit this has had for residents there. Is there any way of avoiding this becoming a battle between those living on the left and right hand sides of Green Lanes?
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Permalink Reply by Adam on
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Well put Paul
Now lets co-ordinate a campaign to get these issues taken seriously (letter writing, petition, getting the local schools involved). Politicians respond to what is in their post-bags.
who wants to get involved in planning this campaign?
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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And to bring into the discussion other HOL members contributions from elsewhere which makes it very clear you have support for a Wightman Rd traffic calming campaign Paul;
1. Guy Bentham
2. Frances (fmw)
3. Birdy Too
4. Old-Age-Emporium(OAE), aka Eddie
5. John M
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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A well planned campaign will be good, but as I've pointed out before, the issue for many people isn't just Wightman. Traffic levels on other Ladder roads are a real concern too.
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@ Hugh, I think there are enough references in the original statement to cover both (and I guess if Wightman is traffic reduced the ladder roads probably will be too). We just need to make sure any follow up is also equally balanced.
@Tom. I guess it depends on relativity. Wightman road is a B road currently so you would expect it to have heavier traffic, the point in both cases is does it have too much traffic for their current designation. As a rung resident my road has through traffic that is not pertinant to a residential designated road (lorries, van's and buses (not TFL ones)) that I would like to see reduced or stopped.
@ WP, how much of this is already being looked at by the other residents groups? If nothing then go for it but we should make sure there is a degree of joined up-ness here. Happy to help out. The only aspect I would add would be a degree of enforcement.
@ everyone. How about putting a barrier across WR halfway along as with many other roads to prevent through traffic, only issue would be increase in traffic on green lanes (unless this encourages people to get out of their cars, something we shouldn't give up on). I am aware that this probably sits alongside my other crackpot schemes but hey, gotta keep being creative!
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Permalink Reply by WightmanPaul on
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I agree, and even within those roads there are particular ones - such as Warham - which have suffered appallingly. I tried to find a form of words which spoke to the particular concerns of all residents and placed the issue in the broader context of the Harringay name debate. I think it's crucial that we see the Harringay Traffic Plan as the aim, not a few speed bumps here or there. Inevitably, a strategy we will face in opposition to a wholistic plan will be to divide us by offering little bits of this or that to buy off residents' concerns. We will not get anywhere with this if we are anything other than inclusive of the concerns of residents across the Harringay area.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Traffic going east/west is forced to go north/south by the railway.
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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It's the way the traffic flows down wightman, not just the volume. I think wightman is central to any campaign as it effects most of us.
The ladder as a whole has had a Series of changes which have improved the situation in a majority of cases. My old road had more traffic but now it's slower and there isnt the confrontations.
There is just too much traffic, no amount of highway planning is going to make this perfect.
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Tom you pinpoint exactly what has caused the problem in hte first place. Tinkering round with just a few roads to the great detriment of others. What is being proposed in part is to undo the damage that tinkering has caused.
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thanks Anthony & paul. No criticism implied. My last comment was a reminder to matt. I recognise that there was breadth in the original post. I was being lazy with my reply since I'm writing on a phone from the train.
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I commend Paul for trying to consider everyone's concerns in their own roads. That's very diplomatic and may ultimately work in getting a wider group on board for a traffic campaign. Whether this will help produce real & tangible results for Wightman Rd or end up with resources being spread too thinly across Harringay is my very real concern.
There is huge hole in government funding at the moment for all manner of projects, for schools, roads, hospitals. It's so bad in fact that the government is currently asking councils if they'll consider using some of their pension funds to help fund such projects.
That's the wider funding picture and therefore with less money around I believe tightly focused campaigns, including geographically, are more likely to succeed.
I really do feel it's the turn of the residents of Wightman Road.
(good debate btw which is what HOL is perfect for)
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