Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Thameslink Franchise Consultation - Have your say on this
This is worth having a look at and having you say. It will affect the two stations that serve Harringay Ward, Harringay and Hornsey. Do let me have your thoughts either here or at karen.alexander.haringeylibdems@gmail.com
Thameslink Franchise
Introduction
The Department for Transport is consulting on a new franchise covering the existing First Capital Connect Thameslink and Great Northern franchises and the franchise for Southern and some services from the South East franchise. The closing date for the consultation is 23 August. The new franchise [the biggest that has ever been let] would form the basis for the full new Thameslink services expecting to be delivered in 2018.
TfL analysis shows the GN route south of Bowes Park will be standing room only in morning peak services in 2021.
Consultation document attached below. taken from the DoT website.
Proposed Franchise
The franchise is to last for 7 years with a possible 2 year extension. Five bidders have been shortlisted by DfT [Abellio Thameslink, First Thameslink (current franchise holder), Govia Thameslink, MTR Corporation Thameslink and Stagecoach Thameslink]. MTR and First have approached the Council seeking our comments. DfT is expecting to issue the Invitation to Tender [ITT] to shortlisted applicants in October 2012 with the winning bid announced in May 2013 for commencement in September 2013. Southern services would become part of the franchise in July 2015 with South East services by December 2018.
The franchise includes Great Northern services which serve Bowes Park, Alexandra Palace, Hornsey, Harringay and Finsbury Park stations in Haringey. The GN serves such destinations as Peterborough, Cambridge, Kings Lynn, Stevenage, Welwyn Garden City and Hertford into and out of Kings Cross and Moorgate. Some of the longer distance GN services such as to Cambridge and Peterborough which currently terminate at Kings Cross would transfer to the new Thameslink line through Farringdon and Blackfriars. The DfT raise the possibility of some of the longer distance GN services not serving the Thameslink core route between Kings Cross and Blackfriars could transfer to the new Intercity East Coast franchise but these longer distance services such as to Peterborough and Stevenage would not serve Haringey stations with the exception of Finsbury Park.
Current Services
Current service frequencies for Bowes Park, Alexandra Palace, Hornsey and Harringay are as follows:
Monday to Friday
- Moorgate/Hornsey/Harringay/Alexandra Palace – 6 trains per hour peak and off peak
- Moorgate/Bowes Park – 3 trains per hour peak and off-peak
Saturday and Sunday
- Kings Cross/Hornsey/Harringay/Alexandra Palace – 4 trains per hour
- Kings Cross/Bowes Park – 2 trains per hour
Services to Finsbury Park are very high frequency.
Issues to consider for Consultation Response
- Should the Council be seeking enhanced service frequencies for the GN route?
- What are the priorities for improving customer experience?
- What station improvements should be sought eg ticket offices, gating?
- Is there a need for better cycle parking at Haringey stations?
- Does the current rolling stock meet the needs of passengers? Is there a need for new rolling stock?
- Is there scope for innovative fares or ticketing arrangements?
- Any other comments?
Tags for Forum Posts: first capital connect, great northern line, public transport, trains
- Attachments:
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consultation-thameslink.pdf, 930 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 0au62mcjc4khe on
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I can do either day, however it might be useful to meet first at a little cafe MOKA which is next to the station entrance to look at what is there and fully absorb what the problems are, particularly with the northbound platform.
But otherwise the Salisbury is fine for me, and I am easy on either day at the moment.
The Standard piece is interesting, notoriously bad for it's lack of interest in transport issues, has picked this up because it does affect a core London commuter service. The lack of activity by Haringey so far is a little worrying, following a conversation yesterday.
RicP
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Permalink Reply by Arkady on
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MOKA works for me. I agree it would be helpful to clarify 'which track does what'.
The ECML is so fiendishly complicated that I’m not 100% on which are the slows, the semi-fasts, the fasts, etc., and some assistance in sketching out a diagram would be excellent.
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Failing that we could just met on the station bridge? I think I’d recognise you Hugh, and I’m usually sporting a trilby.
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I don't think this article adds anything to the informed discussion on this thread, but it may be of interest that the consultation has been highlighted in the press: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/fate-of-thameslink-service-connectin...
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Good to see Sutton Council on the ball and going in to bat for their residents.
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I suppose they are doing what they have to do, but the 'save the Sutton/Wimbledon loop' argument is a selfish one. For various reasons it is not possible to extend the Sutton Loop platforms to 12-car. Running lots of 8-car trains through the Thameslink core would be a massive waste of capacity and undermine the whole point of the Thameslink programme.
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Remember the Welwyn - Sevenoaks or Caterham service is to be 8-car trains too. I'm a bit rusty on the original inquiry back in 2000, but Counsel for Railtrack at that stage was convinced trains would be normal 4-car units coupled together. These 8 or 12 car fixed formations are a relatively recent DfT idea. I had argued for 10 car trains, a 6 + 4 or 5 + 5 formations, primarily to simplify some of the station works problems, but then ruled out of hand.
RicP
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Sure, there will be some 8-cars through the core, but it makes more sense to terminate the Sutton loop trains at Blackfriars as the terminating bays are on the west side – it simplifies operations.
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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Ok shall we say Monday at 6pm. I am happy with the Salisbury - do we need to meet at the station first? If she is free, I will bring my colleague Asha as she has also been very involved in this if that is ok.
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