Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Thameslink Franchise Consultation - Have your say on this
This is worth having a look at and having you say. It will affect the two stations that serve Harringay Ward, Harringay and Hornsey. Do let me have your thoughts either here or at karen.alexander.haringeylibdems@gmail.com
Thameslink Franchise
Introduction
The Department for Transport is consulting on a new franchise covering the existing First Capital Connect Thameslink and Great Northern franchises and the franchise for Southern and some services from the South East franchise. The closing date for the consultation is 23 August. The new franchise [the biggest that has ever been let] would form the basis for the full new Thameslink services expecting to be delivered in 2018.
TfL analysis shows the GN route south of Bowes Park will be standing room only in morning peak services in 2021.
Consultation document attached below. taken from the DoT website.
Proposed Franchise
The franchise is to last for 7 years with a possible 2 year extension. Five bidders have been shortlisted by DfT [Abellio Thameslink, First Thameslink (current franchise holder), Govia Thameslink, MTR Corporation Thameslink and Stagecoach Thameslink]. MTR and First have approached the Council seeking our comments. DfT is expecting to issue the Invitation to Tender [ITT] to shortlisted applicants in October 2012 with the winning bid announced in May 2013 for commencement in September 2013. Southern services would become part of the franchise in July 2015 with South East services by December 2018.
The franchise includes Great Northern services which serve Bowes Park, Alexandra Palace, Hornsey, Harringay and Finsbury Park stations in Haringey. The GN serves such destinations as Peterborough, Cambridge, Kings Lynn, Stevenage, Welwyn Garden City and Hertford into and out of Kings Cross and Moorgate. Some of the longer distance GN services such as to Cambridge and Peterborough which currently terminate at Kings Cross would transfer to the new Thameslink line through Farringdon and Blackfriars. The DfT raise the possibility of some of the longer distance GN services not serving the Thameslink core route between Kings Cross and Blackfriars could transfer to the new Intercity East Coast franchise but these longer distance services such as to Peterborough and Stevenage would not serve Haringey stations with the exception of Finsbury Park.
Current Services
Current service frequencies for Bowes Park, Alexandra Palace, Hornsey and Harringay are as follows:
Monday to Friday
- Moorgate/Hornsey/Harringay/Alexandra Palace – 6 trains per hour peak and off peak
- Moorgate/Bowes Park – 3 trains per hour peak and off-peak
Saturday and Sunday
- Kings Cross/Hornsey/Harringay/Alexandra Palace – 4 trains per hour
- Kings Cross/Bowes Park – 2 trains per hour
Services to Finsbury Park are very high frequency.
Issues to consider for Consultation Response
- Should the Council be seeking enhanced service frequencies for the GN route?
- What are the priorities for improving customer experience?
- What station improvements should be sought eg ticket offices, gating?
- Is there a need for better cycle parking at Haringey stations?
- Does the current rolling stock meet the needs of passengers? Is there a need for new rolling stock?
- Is there scope for innovative fares or ticketing arrangements?
- Any other comments?
Tags for Forum Posts: first capital connect, great northern line, public transport, trains
- Attachments:
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consultation-thameslink.pdf, 930 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Arkady on
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Not really. They are working on it. They asked all the right questions though.
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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Lynne Featherstone's office are continuing to put together stuff on this and there should be a press release/email with more information as to what we are doing this week. Cllr David Schmitz, Asha Kaur and I met with Lynne and Dawn Barnes, who was our GLA candidate at Harringay Station station yesterday to have a look at the platforms and do some photographs. They are working on setting up a meeting with the government minister responsible to discuss this further and continue lobbying to get the platforms upgraded to accommodate the longer trains. Cllr Schmitz or myself will accompany Lynne to that meeting when it is organised. In the meantime, its really important to get as many people to respond to the consultation as possible now. These changes won't happen until around 2018 but its vital that we have our initial say now so that this is built into the plans.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Thanks Karen.
In terms of getting as many people as possible to respond, that's what Arkady and I are trying to get going here. This needs an informed response supported by many people. Arkady's the informed. We can work in the many people, as I;m sure can you. What we're asking for is for the submission to be led by democratic representatives on our behalf. We're awaiting an answer. Can you help?
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Yes, of course, I am very happy to do that. Its important to get all the help we can from Lynne F's office and I have been working on that, I am meeting with Cllr Schmitz and Asha Kaur next week to further discuss this. In terms of leading the submission from this point I would find it useful to sit down you and Arkady in the first instance so we can plan in finer detail and drive it on from there.
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Permalink Reply by 0au62mcjc4khe on
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Can you contact me too, please. I think it rather crucial that we know what the Borough's officers are proposing to say. Unfortunately few of the Labour group are closely involved as they are not affected. It would be helpful to know if any of the Labour Group intend to be directly involved - Noel Park and Bowes Park Members. It would help if you could establish formally please which officer is leading on this, as we need to meet him / her.
Don't rush too quickly into a 'Ministerial Meeting', without preparing the ground and have a short bullet-point list. You'll be lucky to get 30 minutes with Theresa Villiers.
I have a professional mtg on Wednesday with the Instute of Logistics & Transport Strategic Rail Policy Group; I have been a member of this working group for quite a few years, and I expect Thameslink may be on the agenda (when I get it) but most discussion will be on Ms Greenings outpourings from last Monday on the 'Output Statement'.
It is fortunate that the three Harringay councillors are more closely involved but you do need to get Stroud Green and Hornsey councillors more involved.
I have been arguing for so long about the paucity of these services since the electric trains started back in 1976, so this could one opportunity to make sure we get some decent services. I would add that our best service was in the early 80s, and we need some passenger counts. I know from Gospel Oak - Barking the official stats were way below the actual, hence the passenger growth was way above the estimate and so I expect the figures for Harringay and Hornsey are down too.
We have a lot to do. And Karen it would be helpful to talk directly to you.
Cheers Richard
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Sounds like a plan, and let's make sure that Richard P is there, he's more knowledgable than me.
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I'm around next Monday or Tuesday, late afternoon/very early evening if you want meet somewhere local to discuss further.
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Here's an article published today on Lynne Featherstone's blog. It sounds to me like she's trying to tread the line between supporting the coalition and supporting local people. I'm afraid to say that on my reading of this article alone, local people come a very definite second on this issue. I do hope I'm misreading it, but given the evident conflict of interest, we perhaps ought to wonder whether or not we'd be more realistic looking elsewhere for sponsorship for our submission.
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Collective cabinet responsibility prevents her from being openly belligerent, but on the other hand she is better placed than any other local MP to actually influence outcomes. Let’s discuss when we meet, but I would suggest polishing up my draft (with the inclusion of a list of ‘demands’, and submitting it ourselves after doing some publicity. We can ask Lynne et al to endorse it, but maintain political neutrality.
There is a slight slip in Lynne’s article. There is almost no chance of any 12-car trains stopping at H&H. There ought to be four 8-car Welwyn trains an hour though, which is why platform extension from the current 6-car maximum is desirable.
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Hugh, Richard - can you meet next week?
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Yes, I agree entirely. We all have some points, I too would press for Harringay and Hornsey to accommodate 8 car trains, ie 165m platforms. Assume this is what is being put in at Alexandra Palace, although strategically these should be 12-car 245m platforms for maximum flexibility.
Yes, Lynne Featerstone has to adhere to collective responsibility, but I also am pursuing her over Gospel Oak - Barking electrification being omitted from HLOS Rail Strategy yet again. She will benefit from very clear succinct briefing on what is needed and why. Her experience at the GLA gave her a useful grounding on core issues relating to rail and her interest and input is welcomed by us all.
My BGOLUG colleague Glenn has joined HOL as an interested observer, his knowledge of local railway operations is excellent and an asset to the group. (He likes chuffers to, as I do!)
I find DfTs argument for fixed 12-car trains frankly bizarre, as off-peak there is going to be a lot of fresh air whizzing around, yet another DfT own goal. This means Thameslink trains will be very inflexible, cannot split en-route, eg Kings Lynn only 4 cars of an 8 car train that splits at Cambrigsde, and many more Southern examples. DfT simply lacks the relevant operating experience.
We need to 'link' on the website to exchange e-mails, and meet for a pint later this week.
Cheers to all Richard
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