Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Thameslink Franchise Consultation - Have your say on this
This is worth having a look at and having you say. It will affect the two stations that serve Harringay Ward, Harringay and Hornsey. Do let me have your thoughts either here or at karen.alexander.haringeylibdems@gmail.com
Thameslink Franchise
Introduction
The Department for Transport is consulting on a new franchise covering the existing First Capital Connect Thameslink and Great Northern franchises and the franchise for Southern and some services from the South East franchise. The closing date for the consultation is 23 August. The new franchise [the biggest that has ever been let] would form the basis for the full new Thameslink services expecting to be delivered in 2018.
TfL analysis shows the GN route south of Bowes Park will be standing room only in morning peak services in 2021.
Consultation document attached below. taken from the DoT website.
Proposed Franchise
The franchise is to last for 7 years with a possible 2 year extension. Five bidders have been shortlisted by DfT [Abellio Thameslink, First Thameslink (current franchise holder), Govia Thameslink, MTR Corporation Thameslink and Stagecoach Thameslink]. MTR and First have approached the Council seeking our comments. DfT is expecting to issue the Invitation to Tender [ITT] to shortlisted applicants in October 2012 with the winning bid announced in May 2013 for commencement in September 2013. Southern services would become part of the franchise in July 2015 with South East services by December 2018.
The franchise includes Great Northern services which serve Bowes Park, Alexandra Palace, Hornsey, Harringay and Finsbury Park stations in Haringey. The GN serves such destinations as Peterborough, Cambridge, Kings Lynn, Stevenage, Welwyn Garden City and Hertford into and out of Kings Cross and Moorgate. Some of the longer distance GN services such as to Cambridge and Peterborough which currently terminate at Kings Cross would transfer to the new Thameslink line through Farringdon and Blackfriars. The DfT raise the possibility of some of the longer distance GN services not serving the Thameslink core route between Kings Cross and Blackfriars could transfer to the new Intercity East Coast franchise but these longer distance services such as to Peterborough and Stevenage would not serve Haringey stations with the exception of Finsbury Park.
Current Services
Current service frequencies for Bowes Park, Alexandra Palace, Hornsey and Harringay are as follows:
Monday to Friday
- Moorgate/Hornsey/Harringay/Alexandra Palace – 6 trains per hour peak and off peak
- Moorgate/Bowes Park – 3 trains per hour peak and off-peak
Saturday and Sunday
- Kings Cross/Hornsey/Harringay/Alexandra Palace – 4 trains per hour
- Kings Cross/Bowes Park – 2 trains per hour
Services to Finsbury Park are very high frequency.
Issues to consider for Consultation Response
- Should the Council be seeking enhanced service frequencies for the GN route?
- What are the priorities for improving customer experience?
- What station improvements should be sought eg ticket offices, gating?
- Is there a need for better cycle parking at Haringey stations?
- Does the current rolling stock meet the needs of passengers? Is there a need for new rolling stock?
- Is there scope for innovative fares or ticketing arrangements?
- Any other comments?
Tags for Forum Posts: first capital connect, great northern line, public transport, trains
- Attachments:
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consultation-thameslink.pdf, 930 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by William Booth on
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Yeah, I was elliptically referring to them as having thought of it before but couldn't remember the name of the group, thanks! Can't low capacity services be offset by high frequency (as with the DLR at its central/busy section)? Though again we're into a costs discussion then.
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Permalink Reply by Arkady on
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Also, and restored station at Ally Pally ought to link properly to the existing national rail station rather than being so far away. It ought to also factor in TFL’s proposed Crossrail 2 Option B, which we should all cross our fingers for: http://www.transportxtra.com/magazines/local_transport_today/news/?...
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Yeah, though I fear they're trying to conflate two good ideas into one unsatisfactory one with this version of crossrail 2. Wouldn't it be better to keep it as Clapham/SW to East/NorthEast London and then have dedicated north-south high-capacity link tunnels (i.e. crossrail 3) - FP-Eus/KXSP-TCR-Waterloo-Clapham Junction. But again, point taken that this probably won't happen due to costs etc.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Interesting, William.
But could such a line be built under, or over, the Parkland Walk, to which many have now become attached, in its present park-like form?
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Hmmm, sadly I really doubt it. That's why I'd think some sort of equivalent greenways would need to be created elsewhere.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I'm wondering how best to respond to this consultation in such a way as to make the highest possible impact. We clearly have some informed thinking from Arkady. Would it be best to respond as a coalition of Harringay and Hornsey Station rail users or as separate groups? I'd have thought the former. Any thoughts anyone?
There are 33 questions in total. I've extracted below the nine questions which would most likely guide any response we would make. The full set, extracted from the consultation paper, is attached.
There are just over five weeks till the deadline.
Q.4 What increments or decrements to the specification would stakeholders wish to see and how would these be funded?
Q.6 Are there other approaches to train service specification which you would prefer?
Q.7 What changes to services would stakeholders propose, what is the rationale for them and would these provide economic benefit?
Q.9 What steps might bidders be expected to take to meet passenger demand and what might be the most appropriate mechanisms for managing demand?
Q.13 What destinations on the Great Northern route do respondents consider would be appropriate to become destinations for trains which serve the core Thameslink route?
Q.14 Do respondents believe Great Northern trains which do not serve the Thameslink core route should remain as part of this franchise or be transferred to the new Inter City East Coast franchise?
Q.15 What improvements would respondents like to see made to Great Northern services as part of the combined franchise and what is the rationale for this?
Q.27 What are the priorities that respondents consider should be taken into account to improve the passenger experience of using these services?
Q.29 What is important to stakeholders in the future use and improvements in stations?
Responses to this consultation should be sent to:
The Combined Franchise Replacement Sponsor
Department for Transport
Zone 3/15
Great Minster House
33 Horseferry Road
London SW1P 4DR
Or by email to: thameslink@dft.gsi.gov.uk
The deadline for responses is 1700 on 23 August 2012, but earlier replies will be very welcome.
- Attachments:
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ThamesL Cons Ext.pdf, 58 KB
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I think you’ve picked the right nine questions. I agree that a coalition – ideally MP-led (or at least figure-headed) would be best.
If people think it would be useful I could draft answers to those questions as a starting point for discussion.
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Figurehead-led is exactly what I was thinking - either councillors or a Lib-Lab link-up between Lammy and Featherstone to keep party politics to a minimum.
Arkady, your offer to draft the questions is exceedingly generous and I for one would welcome it.
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Most of the questions are straight forward, but Q4 & Q6 are a bit vague. I think Q4 is asking whether the proposal in the consultation should be larger or smaller in scope, and Q6 is asking whether we think the entire approach to tendering is wrong. Is that how other people are interpreting them?
Ben
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Sounds about right, but I guess with all of these questions, we see them as a guide to what's being sought then with that in mind go ahead and use them to give the information we want to give to make the case we want to make.
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