Thameslink Franchise Consultation - Have your say on this

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Hugh on July 18, 2012 at 18:32

And a link up with Lammy?

Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on July 18, 2012 at 18:44

My view is that this is such an important issue that it should be cross-party if that is what it takes to get the outcome we need. At this point I haven't personally involved Mr Lammy - has anyone else?

Permalink Reply by Hugh on July 18, 2012 at 23:08

I haven't Karen. I thought you might like to ?

Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on July 19, 2012 at 8:52

The two railway stations are used probably equally by passengers to the east and west; its fortunate the railway line lies along the border of two parliamentary electorates.

I hope that Tottenham's MP Mr Lammy, who lives in Stroud Green*, can also join this campaign.

Without lobbying, we risk losing significant services; with maximum effective lobbying, we might actually get improved rail services.

*David Lammy's constituency MP is Lynne Featherstone MP.

Permalink Reply by Arkady on July 19, 2012 at 14:33

Can we call any Lynne Featherstone/David Lammy link-up ‘The Lynne-Lammy Double Whammy’?

I’ll get my coat.

Permalink Reply by Arkady on July 19, 2012 at 9:20

Or 48 hours...

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on July 19, 2012 at 9:34

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Permalink Reply by Arkady on July 19, 2012 at 11:08

OK, first draft.  I’ve tried to address the questions without answering them all individually.  There is probably plenty that could be added, especially re station facilities.  Someone who is less of a wordy gobshite could trim some of my pretentious sentences.  I’m going to post this, minus the first line, on a few places where people even geekier than me can do some fact-checking.

 

“On behalf of concerned users of Harringay & Hornsey Rail (‘H&H’) stations… etc. etc. [Hugh, you will be better at this bit than me]

 

Threats to current service levels

 

Two separate changes to the railway are underway which will affect services to Harringay & Hornsey stations: The Thameslink Programme and the segregation of Hertford Loop services.  It is essential that any changes to service patterns maintain, at a minimum, the current level of service to H&H.  Ideally, H&H should benefit from the increased services made possible by these changes.

 

H&H currently receive six trains per hour at peak times.  These trains run between London Moorgate and Alexandra Palace, after which the service is divided between trains towards Welwyn Garden City (‘The Welwyn route’) and trains towards Hertford North or Stevenage (‘The Hertford Loop’).  In the evenings and at weekends the trains are diverted to London King’s Cross.

 

Because the Welwyn service and the Hertford Loop currently share track between Alexandra Palace (AP) and Finsbury Park (FP), it is not possible to increase the service beyond six trains per hour.  To remedy this, work is currently under way to bring a freight-only track into passenger service for the Hertford Loop between those two stations, allowing full segregation of the two services in future.  This will allow six trains per hour on the Hertford Loop (up to ten at peak times) and six trains per hour on the Welwyn Service.  Stations between Alexandra Palace and Finsbury Park could, therefore, be serviced by over twice the current number of trains. 

 

According to the 2011 Jacobs Consultancy report for the DfT, service patterns post-2018 are likely to be as follows:

 

Welwyn service:

2tph Welwyn Garden City - Moorgate 3/6 car 313

2tph Welwyn Garden City - Caterham 8 car 700

2tph Welwyn Garden City -Maidstone East 8 car 700

Hertford Loop:

2tph Letchworth - Moorgate va Hertford North 3/6 car 313

2tph Hertford North - Moorgate 3/6 car 313

2tph Gordon Hill - Moorgate 3/6 313

 

However, the track currently being converted for the Hertford Loop does not have platforms at any station between Alexandra Palace and Finsbury Park.  Platforms are currently being installed at FP and AP, but they are not being installed at the intermediate stations, Hornsey and Harringay.  Any reference to new platforms at H&H appears to have disappeared from recent official documentation.  Post-segregation, then, H&H may be reliant on the six-trains per hour on the Welwyn service.  While this would not be a reduction in trains-per-hour it would be a reduction in available services, as users of H&H would need to change at Alexandra Palace if they wished to use the Hertford Loop Service.  Post-Thameslink it would also often be necessary to change at Finsbury Park to get to Moorgate, as four of the six Welwyn trains are expected to be diverted to St Pancras.

 

A further issue is that the four Welwyn trains per hour from Thameslink will likely be eight-cars long.  The platforms at H&H can currently only cater for six-car trains, and there appear to be no plans to lengthen them (as has happened at Finsbury Park).  If these trains are to stop at H&H they will require Selective Door Opening (SDO).  While the new Siemens Desiro trains commissioned for Thameslink are capable of this, SDO is regarded as bad practice.  Nor has any guarantee been given that these trains will stop at H&H.  Without this guarantees, or a guarantee of new platforms on the Hertford Loop, H&H could be reliant on the remaining two trains per hour running between Welwyn and Moorgate; rather than increasing services, services could be a reduced to a third of their current level.

 

Future services

 

Whichever franchise takes over responsibility for the Welwyn and Hertford Loop services should give a guarantee that service levels at Hornsey and Harringay will not be reduced.  Ideally, any future franchise should be required to ensure that H&H receives the full benefit of the increased service levels made available by segregation and Thameslink.  Together, the new franchise and the DfT should do one or more of the following:

 

A1) guarantee that the four Thameslink trains per hour will stop at H&H

A2) extend the Welwyn Thameslink platforms at H&H to eight-car so that SDO can be avoided

B) build new platform faces at H&H on the new Hertford Loop line to enable access to the six+ trains per hour running on this line.

 

Currently, many potential passengers are dissuaded from using Harringay and Hornsey stations due to overcrowding.  The potential doubling of trains per hour brought about by implementing options A & B would remedy this, inevitably easing road congestion by car & bus users.

 

Ensuring that users of H&H maintain access to both Welwyn and Hertford services would also have a knock-on benefit of relieving Finsbury Park station - the busiest station outside of Zone 1 - as passengers would not need to change trains there.

 

Any future franchise should also create an evening and weekend service to Moorgate.  As well as giving passengers additional options, this would relieve Finsbury Park station by allowing passengers to take advantage of the cross-platform change to the Victoria Line at Highbury and Islington.  It would also be an economic spur to areas around Drayton Park and Essex Road stations, which are currently closed in the evenings and at weekends.

 

Station facilities

 

Hornsey and Harringay stations are currently in a poor state or repair, with gloomy platforms, no cycle-parking facilities, no gate-lines or permanent staffing.  Harringay is in a particularly poor state, having had its original building replaced by a 'temporary' wooden shack following a fire in the 1960s.  Any future franchise should guarantee to substantial upgrade facilities to London Overground-standard.

 

The future franchise

 

Of the lessons learned during First Capital Connects current tenure over the Great Northern routes, perhaps the clearest is this: An inter-city rail franchise will not prioritise local services or stations only served by local services.  Stations like Harringay and Hornsey will inevitably be neglected in favour of larger stations such as Cambridge.  It is not, therefore, appropriate for the non-Thameslink Welwyn and Hertford Loop services to remain part of a wider Thameslink franchise.  Nor is it appropriate for it to be transferred to another, ‘Greater East Anglia’ inter-city franchise.

 

The Hertford Loop and remaining Moorgate-Welwyn service is an excellent contender for adoption by TFL and London Overground.  London Overground's commitment to local high-frequency stopping services, clean, upgraded and well maintained stations, ticket gate-lines, permanent-staffing during opening hours, etc. are precisely what is required.  As demonstrated by the Overground elsewhere this would maximise the potential of these services.  Merely appearing on the standard tube map would likely lead to increased usage, relieving the overcrowded Victoria Line.

 

If the Welwyn & Hertford Loop services cannot immediately be adopted by London Overground they should be given their own, local franchise tasked with adopting LO standards and preparing for a future transition to TFL control."

Permalink Reply by William Booth on July 19, 2012 at 11:14

Can't see a reply button for the discussion document below but just wanted to say excellent work and the point about bringing services into the TfL/LO fold is well made.

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Permalink Reply by Charlene on July 19, 2012 at 11:58

Yes I agree excellent work! Thank you for that

Permalink Reply by Arkady on July 19, 2012 at 12:14

You’re welcome. I’m in an infinitesimal minority who enjoy doing that sort of thing. Someone should give me job, really.

Anyway, I’ll update you if anything else comes up; otherwise it’s over to the community-organiser types and elected people to run with it. Just think of me if you’re ever getting your plush Siemens Desiro direct from Harringay to London Bridge, or getting the drunk train at midnight on a Saturday from Old Street to Harringay…

Permalink Reply by Arkady on July 19, 2012 at 13:39

We could also make the point about using Drayton Park for Arsenal punters if the Moorgate line was open at evenings & weekends.

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