Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Sunday Parking Fiasco - Trinity Road by St Mary's Greek Church
Yesterday I posted on Twitter that I had been verbally & physically abused outside my house due to a parking incident so I just wanted to explain the situation to see if anyone has any advice.
We live on Trinity Road (Wood Green) and just a few yards from St Mary's Greek Orthodox Church. We have always encountered problems with parking at the weekend due to high volumes of traffic, arriving and departing for services, weddings, funerals. It is very small narrow road so it can become very congested. At times we can come from shopping and have no where to park. Most of the cars have disabled badges so they are exempt from parking penalties.
On a Sunday there is no parking enforcement meaning that people will park pretty much where they want; over drive ways etc. There is a fire safety gate just by the church and just before that is a doubled yellow line, turn around point. We have to use this if the car is facing in the wrong direction because of the one way traffic system.
I'm actually in the process of learning to drive (test in 3 weeks!) so my partner accompanies in the car. We left the house yesterday around mid day. It was very busy as usual and as I went to turn into the turn around point when a car came down reversed into the area - at which point I thought he was turning around. There was taxi also trying to turn around too. Instead the guy just parked up. The taxi beebed then I told the driver in the parked car that he couldn't park there. At which point he got out of the car and started yelling. To cut a long story short, the guy became very abusive, swearing pushing me away, refusing to admit he was wrongly parked. His wife then got out and the abuse continued. Angry and shakened at the situation I went into the church to see if they could help diffuse the situation and explain to the guy (who had come to the church service) that we was in fact parked somewhere he shouldn't be. They didn't really seem interested when my partner pointed him out - I think they were more bothered about the disruption to the on-going service.
It got pretty nasty, the guy had a wife and children but both were very aggressive. He kept running ran at me until our next door neighbour called the police and calmed the man down. The police took so long to come that the guy went and we ended up calling them and told them not to come. We didn't get the number plate.
This is a really frustrating situation that we as residents have to put up with most weekends; I appreciate that yesterdays situation is rare but I want to know what I can do to prevent this happening again.
Its making our life's misery at the weekend.
Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by james walsh on
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Good advice Gerry
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Yeah, those church goers are armed and dangerous.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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I've lived in both Hackney and Tottenham and have never been knifed so far, nor known anyone else who has. Enough stereotyping, thanks.
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Gerry/James, that's ridiculous!! Sure, you need to be careful how you respond to things but you really think that the most sensible thing to do is chill out? I'd be pretty pissed off if this happened where I lived, and I'd feel royally patronised to get a response like that.
Anyway, Rebecca, you have my sympathy, that sounds really frightening. I have no experience to offer but surely the church has to play a role in this? Has anyone talked to them about the issue, exploring the safety issues as well as the basic inconvenience to other residents? I can imagine they might feel very defensive, so is there someone neutral who might be able to play a role, like a local councillor, or even parking services?! I know the latter did get involved to sort out people who were ignoring parking rules near a school.
Hope this of some use, and that you get some helpful responses.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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My thoughts too, Alison.
Though I doubt know this particular church, I've tended to find the people running churches, mosques and synagogues keen to foster good relations with neighbours. So a friendly approach is worth trying.
(There are occasional exceptions, of course. Like a few who seem to believe: Thou shalt dump on thy neighbour's pavement and street.)
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This does seem like a very frightening incident and we should not underestimate the hurt and dammage these thingsy can cause especially when they happen close to home, where we have an expectation to feel safe.
There are several obsevations which might be helpful.
Firstly Aggressive responses usually come as a response to fear threat and rebuke. Although you did nothing to cause these they are likely to exist for the couple that were so abusive. There is likely to have been some perceived threat or a belief that there is some hostility to the church or more likely just the experience we all have in living in a culture that does not value getting things wrong and giving us the tools and social skills to apologise without losing face. The competetive environment where enforcement is seen as the way to create change rather than enablement is a symptom and a cause of this.
Secondly this could be a very good opportunity to facilitate some change and bridge building. There is an irony that the couple who abused you were going to church, however there is a certain beauty in this irony, presumably for those people who go to churh they do so to assist them with the sotcommings which we all experience and not to confirm a perception of rightiousness. Even if this particular church goer was confirming his rightiousness or just attending out of e expectation it is likely that his display of anger followed by attending church, ( where in the particular tradition he attended he would have to prepare himself to receive a sacrement) would give him cause to pause.
The difficulties with the parking could be addressed with the church directly, with the attempt to solve a mutual problem and not to argue who is in the right. In the spirit of mutual co-opperation who knows what solution could be found? The church could provide traffic and parking marshalls before and after services? Those neighbours who dont have a car or have space on thier drives could offer parking spaces by arrangemet, perhaps with numbered tickets, sold at asmall charge to raise money for a cahrity. this would provide an easey way to externalise the problem, create a solution and a method of measuring success. Perhaps this could start with an appreciatve letter to the church which values them and offers to help resolve a common issue.
Just some thoughts,
Niall
( There does not seem to be a spell check on this or have I missed it?)
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hi ive just read your story about parking by the greek church altho its a year or two late. anyways, the greek people in general are rubbish drivers especially the older ones. they think they own the roads they park on and give no respect to local residents. i do attend this church and they do regularly mention about the parking situation but approx 50% still dont give a toss. have u tried chucking some nice bigheaded nails outside your house so they will learn that you are not supposed to park across a driveway!as for the shouting and swearing so whats new with that lot , whether their in the wrong or not they like to show off! also greek people hate to walk further than 50 yards which means walking from the ample parking space in the car park is beyond them
another solution is mayb to stand across your driveway with a massive banner NO PARKING! but you will still get the idiots that refuse to adhere to it. they dont realise how lucky they are not having to pay for parking so should respect the local peoples wishes. 
the only other thing i can suggest is to park across your driveway sat night to stop this using your own cones might help ifu can pinch a few from local roadworks but these idiots will only remove them for the place. (Ive seen this done in cyprus). good luck and dont let the b.....ds grind u down!
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Parking enforcement on Sundays would be.... ummm... more lucrative (sorry, I thought that had Greek origins but it's Latin according to Google).
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Permalink Reply by Lydia R on
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Hi Wendy,
I have to take issue with you in your criticism of Greek drivers--you may think they are bad but I am afraid the Jews in Golders Green are the real big-hitters in the selfish nutcase driving stakes (I am Jewish, so I can say that). Try Hoop Lane on a Sunday morning and you'll go back to Wood Green convinced you are living in a Swedish model of serene order.
As for what to do, this posting is very late (and I hope the driving test went well) but for the record, what I would do in the same situation is:
a) politely point out to the driver that he couldn't stay there (which you did), and
b) upon being rebuffed, very ostentatiously take a photograph of the car and the yellow lines/driveway/parking signs etc. Then
c) ring the police using a very loud voice. The police tend very often not to be too quick responding to these things (except if you are actually trapped in your own drivway) but the other driver couldn't be sure about the timing.
After that you can go into the Church and find a priest to help you. If the car is moved you can always ring the police again to cancel their visit.
I am on Pamish's side here. Don't listen to that daft advice about being terrified of everyone because Tottenham is a place where you are likely to be physicaly threatened. I am a very small woman and I have walked all over Tottenham delivering leaflets and have never felt in danger. On the other hand, I have been threatened when I was shopping in a 'nice' bit of London, in Tesco's in Colney Hatch Lane.
Lydia Rivlin — so nauseated by vote rigging in the wards, venality in the Council, shenanigans in the Planning Department and disorganisation in the Social Services, that I signed up to fight it all by becoming a Conservative candidate in the May elections. One thing about the Tories—they haven’t been corrupted by power round here.
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This does seem like a very frightening incident and we should not underestimate the hurt and dammage these thingsy can cause especially when they happen close to home, where we have an expectation to feel safe.
There are several obsevations which might be helpful.
Firstly Aggressive responses usually come as a response to fear threat and rebuke. Although you did nothing to cause these they are likely to exist for the couple that were so abusive. There is likely to have been some perceived threat or a belief that there is some hostility to the church or more likely just the experience we all have in living in a culture that does not value getting things wrong and giving us the tools and social skills to apologise without losing face. The competetive environment where enforcement is seen as the way to create change rather than enablement is a symptom and a cause of this.
Secondly this could be a very good opportunity to facilitate some change and bridge building. There is an irony that the couple who abused you were going to church, however there is a certain beauty in this irony, presumably for those people who go to churh they do so to assist them with the sotcommings which we all experience and not to confirm a perception of rightiousness. Even if this particular church goer was confirming his rightiousness or just attending out of e expectation it is likely that his display of anger followed by attending church, ( where in the particular tradition he attended he would have to prepare himself to receive a sacrement) would give him cause to pause.
The difficulties with the parking could be addressed with the church directly, with the attempt to solve a mutual problem and not to argue who is in the right. In the spirit of mutual co-opperation who knows what solution could be found? The church could provide traffic and parking marshalls before and after services? Those neighbours who dont have a car or have space on thier drives could offer parking spaces by arrangemet, perhaps with numbered tickets, sold at asmall charge to raise money for a cahrity. this would provide an easey way to externalise the problem, create a solution and a method of measuring success. Perhaps this could start with an appreciatve letter to the church which values them and offers to help resolve a common issue.
Just some thoughts,
Niall
( There does not seem to be a spell check on this or have I missed it?)
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