Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Steam power wall plaque at Harringay Green Lanes
If anyone in the Harringay hive mind can tell me more about the wonderful plaque at Harringay Green Lanes (almost hidden by the MaccyD's drive-through) I would be very grateful. I'm keen for it to feature on the Speaking Stones audio trail I've been banging on about on my page (and on Twitter @StonesSpeaking). Thank you!
Tags for Forum Posts: Harringay Green Lanes station, Speaking Stones, artwork, steam power
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Glenn Wallis on
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I just wondered what any passengers arriving on the platform would think, finding an abandoned locomotive (probably one of the drivers did stay on board) ticking over and then a group of drivers appearing, clutching take-aways, climbing aboard and driving off!
Back in the bad old days of the 'heritage' trains there were some drivers of light locos and freight trains who stopped and picked up passengers when they knew their trains had been cancelled! It was a different railway then.
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Permalink Reply by Martin Malcolm on
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Hi, I did get a reply from the Royal Society of Sculptors: They are doing their best, but their archives are hard to access at the moment because of the virus crisis.
They say they'll be back to us as soon as they can, but that Judith Bluck was definitely one of their members and so ultimately they should have some info. It's just a question of when....
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Just thought I'd do a quick update on where we are with the Judith Bluck plaque, following up on all the leads that came from Niamh's discovery of the date and signature and Lydia's idea of taking it to Robert Elms's notes and queries on Radio London.
The short answer is... we STILL don't know who commissioned it, or why, or what the scene represents. There's a suggestion that it marks the opening of the New River Path because that follows the old rail route to Alexandra Palace. Hmm, maybe... but then why put the plaque at Harringay Green Lanes station, rather than on the path itself, or actually at Ally Pally?
Glenn's idea that it was connected to a (now closed) entrance built to access the new Sainsburys still seems much more likely to me, even though the Sainsburys archive say they don't have a record of commissioning 'Steam Power'. One of the recurring themes of this mystery is that the archives that could help are mostly out of bounds at the moment and that's probably the case with much of the Sainsburys archive at the Museum of London too. And that might be why they cannot find a record.
From the BBC London show, I was referred to Ibstock Brick, who fired other Judith Bluck works in the late 1980s and early 1990s. They are keen to search their files... just as soon as they can get to them after lockdown.
And I'm also in touch now with Errin Hussey, archivist at The Henry Moore Institute, Leeds. She received Judith Bluck's full working archive at the end of last year. She says, 'At the moment, Judith's archive is located at the site and currently inaccessible' because of the virus crisis(!), but Errin has offered to check it as soon as she can and is confident she will be able to answer all our questions definitively in time. We just have to be patient (something I've never been very good at, I'd make useless researcher)!
I'm hoping the launch of the Speaking Stones audio trail tomorrow might prompt someone new to come forward with more info.We launch at noon on Saturday 30th from our twitter account @StonesSpeaking and I'll post links to the Speaking Stones
audio trail in this discussion, in case anyone would like them.Thanks to everyone who has contributed their ideas and observations to help solve this Judith Bluck puzzle. I've really been enjoying the way we have all come together to pool our knowledge!
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I can't see any connection to the New River path.
The bricked-up archway under the railway that Glen refers to, used to connect to Grafton Gardens. Its opening as a throughway became a real problem for residents in the Gardens as it started to attract petty crime of all sorts. Eventually, it was closed off and given to the Gardens Residents Association (GRA) to manage as a community garden. Andy Newman at the GRA was involved.
I'm not sure that Glen suggested the plaque was connected to this entrance, but either way, Andy lives almost on its doorstep, and I think was around at the time that the community garden was created. So he may be able to help.
Glen did say 'So perhaps the plaque was commissioned either by the developer or LB Haringey to mark the completion of the (Mcdonalds/Sainsbury's) redevelopment.' That seems like the most likely explanation to me.
All the best for the launch tomorrow.
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Thank you, Hugh, when I get a chance I'll follow up with Andy. I tend to agree with you on the New River path: if there was a connection, you'd expect to see something about it on or near our plaque.
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I think that some clarification is required. AFAIK the Grafton Gardens entrance/exit was for the Stadium and had special 'stadium traffic only' access steps to both platforms. By the time I started work on the line (1989), the steps to/from the down (No.2 Eastbound) platform had been removed and access from both sides of the line fenced off.
The bricked up arch I was referring to is at the Green Lanes station entrance. Before the entrance off the street (where the current staff cabin is) was created in the early 2000s, the only entrance was the other side of the line (up side or westbound) and the small brick arched subway allowed passengers to reach the down (eastbound) platform.
As Hugh states, the only really likely reason for the plaque is to commemorate the completion of a major stage of the stadium/arena redevelopment or the entire project. I do tend to think it was erected after Sainsbury's but before McDonald's because the latter obscures it from general view.
Finally, the path along part of the Ally Pally branch is called the Parkland Walk, not the New River Walk and is a long way from Green Lanes.
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Thanks for clarifying, Glenn. 'After Sainsburys but before McDonald's' feels pretty much on the money to me. And I also think you're right about The Parkland (and there is a separate New River path) are both too far away to be marked by our mystery plaque.
My favourite idea (backed by no evidence at all!) is the plaque was commissioned to mark the opening of Sainsburys in 1989/90 but not completed for unknown reasons until 91. And then, after that, along came MacDonald's. But time will tell and one day (soon!) we'll get an evidence-based answer!
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Permalink Reply by Lydia Walter on
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Many thanks for this update Martin. Please let us know any further information that you receive.
Good luck and every success with tomorrow’s launch and for the future.
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You will be the first to know, Lydia. I think Errin from the Henry Moore Institute holds the key, so we may have to simply wait until she can go through Judith Bluck's archive.
Thanks for your good wishes on the launch!
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Thanks to everyone who has visited this discussion or joined in with it. We will get the answers on Judith Bluck one day soon. And from this sunny day...
You can hear the Speaking Stones audio trail by following an online link from @StonesSpeaking or going to SpeakingStones.org
Or you can hear all our audio clips (including 'Steam Power') visiting our YouTube channel at:
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