Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Safe Havens
Has anyone else seen this article about Safe Havens? £100,000 has been donated by Rupert Murdoch Tessa Jowell to kick it off. Does anybody else think it's a fantastic idea?
"One safe zone in north Liverpool has produced a "halo effect" in which violent crime fell by 29 % within 50 metres of the safe haven. The family of Jimmy Mizen, the 16-year-old school leaver who was killed in an attack in a bakery in 2008, have been instrumental in introducing the concept to London."
Tags for Forum Posts: safehavens
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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There is more information at the main website here, where I just gave them £10. I will watch with interest.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Intuitively it seems a good idea. However, my approach to all such ideas and suggestions is cautious scepticism; to ask for evidence and examples. And to suggest pilot projects; with rigorous and independent evaluation. Not simply assertions.
The Safe Haven idea was on the list proposed by the so-called Citizens' Inquiry into the Tottenham riot. A report where unevidenced assertion was a striking feature. On the other hand, the "halo effect" in Liverpool sounds like such a piece of evidence. Have you found a link to it, John?
Since the riot, I've heard and read explanations and suggestions from hundreds of individuals and organisations. Many of these are interesting and I wish funding was available. Others are simply bids for public money from organisations small and large.
One thing I've learned over the years is that some of the best ideas can often be counter-intuitive. Especially since there are very many people - some with the best of intentions - who offer a very narrow range of tools and solutions for a wide range of problems.
It's always worth remembering Abraham Maslow's comment: "I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail".
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Reminds me of an old Safe Houses initiative in the US, which was discussed but never started here IIRC. Homes would be vetted as safe and had window stickers. Anyone (women?) being or feeling threatened on the street could ask for refuge. (Me, if I felt scared on a strange street I'd knock on the nearest front door anyway.) This doesn't compare to the need for safety now for young men caught in these terrifying postcode wars.
But what has this to do with the riots? Tenuous, at best.
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Permalink Reply by jackie Walduck on
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It sounds great in theory, and I wish local businesses did this as a matter of course. I could see how it would work on Green lanes, where there are loads of shops and businesses. But, while our local corner shops on the edge of the Tiverton estate could be ideal, because there is nowhere else in the immediate vicinity, this also makes them vulnerable. There are 4 small shops there (Hermitage Road). Because of blocked roads etc it's not easy for police to get there quickly in an emergency. Daytime would be OK, whilst the butchers and dry cleaners are open, but in the evenings there's only a small pizza takeaway, and small grocers/off licence. If safe havens come under attack, wouldn't they be vulnerable? And isn't part of the problem that people (businesses) want to stay out of trouble and so don't stick their necks out to become safe havens?
Is there something in this scheme that protects those who decide to become safe havens and support our community?
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These were among my own worries, Jackie. Especially since the proposal in the Citizen's Inquiry Report was for shopkeepers along Tottenham High Road to be involved in the "City Safe Zones". Many of these are small traders and, as you say, there's a risk they can become targets themselves. As we know, this is what happened to some shops during the Tottenham riot.
You'll see from the "2012 Citizens Work Plan" in the report that tomorrow 9 June was scheduled for a "City Safe Day of Action" where a body called the "Tottenham One Hundred leaders" would organise a "City Safe Action at Tottenham Hotspur FC and along Tottenham High Road". I've no idea if this is happening or indeed about any of the Work Plan. It seems to be coinciding with a rally at City Hall.
Maybe one of the Hundred Leaders is on HoL and can tell us. And also, as Pam Isherwood suggests, what it has to do with the riots.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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I think shopkeepers who make a business out of selling sweets, in a very enticing way, to young children, can give a little back. At the moment the relationship between children and shopkeepers can seem quite exploitative.
As for tenuous journalistically inspired connection to the riots, I didn't mention that.
I never got back at any of the adults who stood around while I got beaten when I was young person or actually beat me themselves (I'd go to jail to smack the bastard teacher who strapped the hell out of me when I was 8), but I'd quite like to. Maybe if there was a riot one day...
Don't think a kid about to get a kicking from a group of other kids wishes he could just avoid that one time by slipping into the shop that sells him crisps and coke to call his mum. One less beating on his way to 21.
Of course this does all rely on the "bravery" of our shopkeepers and that's what I thought the money was for.
But it's not just shopkeepers, we all have a responsibility to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen, we're just too scared.
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I wonder what would happen to the concern of all these rational adults if our mainstream newspapers spent a few years building up the idea that kittens are dangerous and could perhaps have rabies...
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John, the connection between the City Safe Zone proposal and the Tottenham riot wasn't "tenuous" and "journalistically inspired".
It came from an organisation called London Citizens which set up its own Inquiry in response to the Tottenham Riot. One of its recommendations - see page 15 of its report - was "a City Safe Zone in Tottenham". This was something the Citizen's organisation had developed elsewhere. They proposed this "tool" as one answer to problems in Tottenham*. In Maslow's terms, they had a "hammer"; and they came looking for a "nail". They weren't alone, of course.
No one is saying that City Safe Zones are a bad idea; or won't work. It seems that in the right context and properly resourced, they can and they do.
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P.S. Curiously almost all the "experts" and panels which have pronounced on Tottenham's problems seem to have confused Tottenham with the High Road and adjacent area. (Perhaps adding-in the area around Spurs and Tottenham Hale Station and Hale Village.)
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Sorry Alan, I thought you were talking about the link I posted.
This hit me like a truck though (page 16 etc): "The largest employer in haringey is the Council and 95% of businesses employ less than 24 people". Why are we not recognised more as a place where people live and not where they work? A lot of the people I've met who work for the council don't even live here. The schools are closed when there is snow because roads in Hertfordshire are in trouble. It's pointless trying to get them jobs here, there are none and there never will be looking at that statistic. They need to be made suitable for those "soulless" support jobs in The City and The West End. There appear to be a lot of those according to jobserve.
Anyway, that takes us off topic so ignore me.
I think these zones will work, they just need the funding. I mean, how old was Damilola Taylor? 10? We're not talking muscle bound intimidating 16 year olds, just little kids.
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"Rival boys". A phrase casually used by the young man at 0.26 on the video. "There was other rival boys waiting at the bus stop."
Rival for what? Not questioning this, by the young people themselves, means there will always be terrified teenagers being chased by other temporarily empowered teenagers who at that moment have greater numbers or better weapons.
Rival for what?
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Mana? Power? Prestige?
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