Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Outside Wall Insulation
Hi
We are looking to get external wall insulated for our house and currently had a quote from Ecologistics: Insulate your home, who are based up by the chocolate factory.
Has anyone got any experience with them or similar companies? We are talking about the job costing nearly £20,000, so need to get it right!
Tags for Forum Posts: insulation specialist
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Peter on
-
I have worked on a few projects that have used this technique to insulate the home, i have obviously not seen your house but you should be aware that this kind of insulation causes intricate detail,brickwork, recesses ect to be lost.
A client of mine has had experience with a similar company wherby they carried out the work to a good standard however the apperance of the house was changed significantly, I'm not just talking about colour but you must take into account the thickens of the insulation
The reason why its so expensive is because its not a common thing to do.
I would advise you to look at other ways e.g ground source heat pump, triple glazing, roof wall insulation, films.... e.g theres loads before making your final decision
-
Permalink Reply by Dan on
-
Hi Peter
I disagree with you. Insulating is one of the best ways to reduce energy consumption and improve comfort.
Furthermore, I am unsure how GSHP (even with good COP in London) can be installed in haringey. Are you thinking borehole? Or trench? Some serious land ownership needed there!
Triple glazing without wall insulation? Serious thermal bridges there which has structural and performance implications.
Sorry to be picky but please do not give advice without expertise. It can affect the right decision being made.
-
-
Hi Dan,
Thanks for your message.
Thats fine everyone is entitled to there opinions, but what exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree that adding insulation to the walls of a period property causes intricate details to be lost?
Insulation sure is one of the best ways to reduce energy consumption!
but do you consider the £20,000 external wall insulation cost to do so? do you consider the fact that by applying this insulation you would most likely have to change windows? do you consider that a new STBU Breathable DPC would be required even if there is an existing DPC? Do you consider the fact that the style of the house will be significantly altered and would most likely not be in keeping with neighbouring properties? Do you consider the Mortar ties in existing brickwork? which would have to be replaced to be galvanised? Do you consider the overall cost of this? Do you consider party wall issues? because you cannot instal a DPC to a terraced house without serving notice?
Do you know exactly what a thermal bridge is? and how they are caused? because triple glazing does defiantly not cause any structural and performance implications as you suggest if they are installed without wall insulation! do you know that a large amount of new homes in Sweden, Germany, America and Greece are being retrofitted with triple glazing and no insulation is being applied?
Do you simply just have the opinion that "if i insulate i am being green and helping the environment"
GSHP can be and has been installed in Haringey and many other places in London! Even in central! It can be done in a vertical format and therefore possible - however this is costly.
I don't think you have considered all these aspects, If you have a look at my advice again you will understand that the main aim of it was to encourage Helen to explore her options and learn more about other ways of improving thermal efficicney as adding external wall insulation is a big decision to make.
Sorry, i do not mean to come across impolite, but i think you misunderstood the meaning behind my advice, it is however evident from some of your other comments on this page that you have vast knowledge within this subject.
-
-
Hi Peter
No worries - I only disagree with your statement re: insulation and the solutions which you proposed. It's nothing personal.
I won't go into your silly amount of questions. That's a bit self serving I think. Yes you have come across as impolite to an expert who only disagrees with you.
As for expertise - I don't feel I need I justify this to you sorry. Let's just say I assure you I am extremely well-qualified to advise you on these issues and many more.
-
-
I would say it come down to a few basic areas.
it is accoustic, thermal, or damp isulation.
Accoustic.
-injection of foam insulation into wall cavity. Drill, then pump, fill over holes again, either from inside or outside depending.
Quick job, get quotes
- laying accoustic insulated plasterboards to interior wall. Will mean reduction if interior space, possibly up to 100mm from the wall. attach with plasterboard adhesive, tape over joints, skim over with plaster, paint.
£approx £2000-2850
- wooden joists onto interior wall, rockwool insulation between joists, plasterboards over, tape joints, skim plaster paint ect
approx £2000-3000
Thermal,
same as before, check type of insulation used.
Damp.
rising damp.
Injection of damp proof liquid into wall
quick job, done exterior or interior. Check prices. Should be much lower than 20k
Damp via rain runoff
- sealed render to exterior wall,
render wall, seal with stabilising solution, paint
or attach brick effect synthetic plates, mimicking brick effect.
Approx £1500-2200
- paint stabilising solution straight to brickwork
seals bricks, creates shiny appearance, like plastic.
Approx £250- 1000 depending on size of wall. Maybe more if scaffolding needed.
- apply render to interior brick wall, after removing plaster.
apply render, paint with stabilising solution, plaster over/ dry wall. Decorate.
approx £1500
Breathability depends on the size of the wall, and generally if jts just one wall, in an old edwardian/victorian house, it will be breathing pretty well anyway, (porous bricks, lime mortar etc).
-
Permalink Reply by jane on
-
Hi Helen
I'm assuming you know that you can get a grant towards some of the cost, under the Smart Homes scheme being run in this and other boroughs?
Call: 020 7527 4736
The deadline may have passed, but I have a feeling it was extended.
(Can't comment on Ecologistics though - sorry!)
-
-
Hi Helen,
we did it our house on the ladder after extensive research and building works that involved triple glazing, removing all chimneys, installing a mechanical ventilation system.. and all sort of crazy things to make is (one day) almost passive house. Let me know if you want to have a chat about it as my husband did all the research (i just made sure the house was painted mustard at the end
) .
-
-
I've sent you a connection request, as I would love to have a look at the outside of a house that has been done. I understand that the insulation is approx 4 inches thick, and I just cant imagine what it looks like! (as opposed to just seeing photos on the internet)
-
-
Hi Helen
I am a passivhaus consultant and have retrofitted many properties. I work with UCL and am researching aerogel lime plaster systems and building physics. I'd be happy to give you some insulation advice if needed. I am also looking for a property to experiment with a new insulation product in the UK. This is funded work with UCL and the UK's DECC. Let me know if you're interested
Generally...
On a solid brick wall you'd be looking to get to a U-value of ~0.3 W/M2K (this is the amount of energy lost per sqm at a certain temperature difference - standard measurement) to hit building regs. 0.18 is there or about passiv haus.
The insulation performance of a material is its k/lamba value. This to conduct heat (measured in linear W/mK). The lower the number the better. So for some materials you would need a lower thickness to achieve the U-value of 0.3.
Common materials are Polystyrene (EPS, XPS) k - 0.032 - 0.034 ~ 100mm thickness on a solid brick wall, phenolic (0.025) ~ 70-80mm; PUR ~ (0.032) ~ 90-100mm
What is important to consider (and is a huge debate in the building tech industry) is interstitial condensation. This is where water in the air gets behind the insulation and condenses on the cold surface (the wall). This can lead to mould and degradation behind the insulation in theory. This could be a risk for internal systems where the dewpoint is moved behind the insulation. External wall systems do not carry this risk as much
Common ways to address this are to a) increase airtightness and ventilation (i.e. via MVHR) or b) use a breathable material. Breathable materials often have higher k values so must be applied thicker.
Finally you must be careful of cold bridges. These are areas of cold that permeate insulation (i.e. the lintel of a window or the ring beam of a building) and can be exasperated by insulation causing heat loss and specific areas of condensation.
My advice to you is if you can go external, go external. It carries less risk for condensation or loss of space.
I would also advise that (I do not know ecologisitcs) there are a host of bad installs in the UK for EWI. The BRE have undertaken some in depth work on this. This includes poor detailing (leaving exposed areas and water ingress) and a lack of insight to mitigate thermal bridges etc.
But everything aside - a great thing to do. Let me know if I can be of assistance
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
