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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

I would like to get advised regarding the noise issues with next door businesses. One is a cafe restaurant and I posted to seek help and advice in bounds green connected on 24th Sep. Please see the below link. I am joining this community today as one of the members suggested that I could get more advice from this Haringey online community. 

http://www.bowesandbounds.org/forum/topics/re-piccolino-cafe-restau...

I have actually another noise issue with the other side of the business next to my house.

The business in Maidstone House has been changing, well at least for the last 16 years. At the eary days, they were a private care home for yound children who has parental problems as far as I knew at that time. I used to receive a lot of rubbish including condoms and sanitary staff from their windows plus rasial abuse at that time. Then they changed to a home for disabled persons later on. They were occationally noisy but more homely in a way. Then it seems that the business changed again probably early this summer. Now it is owned by a business called Next Step Support LTD. I had to speak to the manager on site last Aug when one of the clients came over to my garden and stood with no eye contact with no facial expression, 5 cm away from my bedroom sliding door at 11 pm. I had to call the police. I spoke to the site manager on the following day, and he promised to be careful and not to disturb the next door neighbors from now then. then things got quieter. but for the last couple of weeks, the clients, as well as the staff, are getting noisier in the back garden. Before it was bearable, though.

I have spoken to the site manager at around 5 pm today. The previous manager left and she is now the site manager. She didn't sound like the previous manager who cared about next door neighbor. I explained to her about my side of the story. For example, their clients were loud talking with strange laughter with music from the mobile phone. Some continuously saying something as if chanting unknown wards plus occasional shouting and strange laughter. They recently started doing football regularly in addition to some training with their staff in the garden regularly and sometimes till late in the evening. It is OK if it is occasional but getting consistent and longer. When they do football, the wooden fencing gets hit and it bangs. In the evening also the staff and the client do training till 10 pm in the garden with rather loud music on with bright light on in the garden. It is getting regular so I went there and asked if you could be a bit quieter 2 days ago. One of the staff told me what they were doing was not illegal, which I knew. I told him that I didn't expect the business will do music and physical training session around that time for so long period. But he hasn't changed and the training continued afterward. I wonder if they are supporting those clients for recovery, they need to know how to live in the society. 
The new manager also told me today that they go out daily in the field. I hope they will do those exercises including football when they go out... By the way, I can hear now when I am writing this. They are out in the garden and talking loud. Luckily they are not playing football tonight with music. Now a big bang and someone shouting "he went over" I got anxious so I closed the back window now.
The new manager also said that they were not doing anything wrong as they are working with social workers, doctors and other professionals. Also said that If one's next door has children and making noise, it is normal to live with it and I was discriminating. 
Their clients are a not child, though.
I said I just want to tell how I feel and would like to find a better way for both of us. However, she sounded rather defensive and I have a feeling that they won't change anything anyway. I reported to the police today. I know the council won't do anything, the same as Piccolino case. The problem seems to me that each business has their workers and the works are not regulated properly with lack of something basic as a human being. Probably they are not really trained properly for the job, seems to me, including the new manager. The words and their attitude are not professional. These business propeties are not their house so basically, they don't care about others.
I would like to move out but it is difficult for me to do so. I would really like to know what kind of rights the businesses like Next Stop and Piccolino have, and how about me.
Regarding the issues with Piccolino restaurant, I sent the below email to MP today including the below;

Without much positive change, the business has still been producing unwanted sounds. I believe noise means it could occur unexpectedly or repetitive. At certain decibels, it can be hazardous to health, with low-frequency noise as damaging as loud noise. I understand the process of determining what level of noise constitutes a nuisance can be quite subjective. However, it is affecting my use or enjoyment of land or of some right over, or in connection, with it and it is a nuisance to me. For instance, the level of noise, its length and timing should be taken into consideration in ascertaining whether a nuisance has actually occurred especially from licensed premises such as Piccolino restaurant.

 

They use appliances such as coffee making machines which causes noise, metal knocking noise, I can hear that in my living room before 7 am with someone talking floor squeaky noise.  One is usually careful about using even domestic appliances outside of the hours. For example Monday to Friday – 8am to 9pm Saturdays – 9am to 5pm Sundays – 10am to 2pm.

 

Regarding floor drugging and squeaky noise which echoes to half of my house, rubber mat or layers of carpet can avoid the noise. But the problem may not be sorted out with just doing that.  re-assessing and changing the make of the internal walls and ceilings should be necessary as people’s voice is also echoing to my rooms.

 

The staff including the owner of this business tend to shout and talk loud in the back garden just outside of the building and in the garden where it is not leased as well as inside the restaurant. I can hear sounds of activity from the business, being able to hear the worker’s normal conversation in front and being able to hear metal and preparing food noise from their kitchen at the back as they keep the window open.  The workers including the owner seem not mindful of being a worker of the business. It seems they don’t have any regulations regarding how to be decently civil unfortunately.

 

The extracting venting noise is also a very big issue to me. Restaurants usually have restricted opening hours because of noise and disruption for local residents. This is to stop people from living in places unsuitable as home, I believe. I feel they need a different ventilation system or stop completely as it is affecting during the day till 10.30 pm usually. I am not living in lively centre areas in London. my back garden life is severely affected by the extraction venting noise and smell from the business

 

I learnt the below recently about ventilation equipment. It says;

 

Ventilation equipment must be designed and installed to avoid noise or vibration nuisance to neighbours. Noise from the ventilation and extraction systems should not be audible within nearby residential properties when the fan and motor unit are in operation. If one cannot hear the fan or motor noise just outside the residential property, the noise should not be audible within it either. Noise attenuators may be required if the fan is noisy. The extract ventilation system must deal with cooking smells, fumes and steam produced by cooking and be designed to prevent or minimise any nuisance caused to neighbors. The ducting should be checked as fumes are discharged ineffectively. Care should be taken when designing the route of ducting to avoid proximity to residential windows on neighboring properties. Final discharge should be vertically upwards and should terminate at least 1m above the eaves. If there are buildings nearby which are likely to have an effect on the dispersion and dilution of odor, the flue should terminate at least 1m above the eaves of that building. Ground level or low-level discharges should generally be avoided.

 

The council is not able to control or reduce the noise and pollution I have been suffering because it is not a statutory noise or pollution nuisance to them. I understand that. However, the license was given by the council. I, therefore, feel that my case is a different matter and as it is associated with a licensed premises, this should be resolved through their premises license, or I would like to apply for reviews of the license.

I am not sure how to sort out the problems I have, really. Wonder if there is anyone like me existing in Haringey?
This is a pretty long post of mine. Thank you very much for reading it.
Best regards,

Tags for Forum Posts: noise

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I am writing to ask if anyone in this community could help me to object a new planning of the landlord of 1 Maidstone Road, which very recently he applied to the Haringey council, please. I feel I can't do this on my own. The link to his planning application is as follows;

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/Applica...

I don't know what will happen to the front restaurant side at the moment but the landlord told me that they will start to run cafe restaurant in the near future again as they already have permission to do so. The council replied to me saying that they were not really changing any regulations and the extraction venting system MUST remain as it is as well as the thin walls they made between semi-detached houses. I learnt that at the end the council won't support my side at all after they granted the previous permission. 

Now, the landlord is going to build a yoga place in the middle of their back garden... From the past experience, it is highly possible that the place can be changed in its use in the future for other uses as he likes. He once granted by the council to build 2 bedroom flat there. If the front cafe restaurant reopens and yoga place at the back garden, as it was already noisy with their workers hanging in their garden from before 7 am till nearly 11pm when Piccolino was running, I am not sure how many people will be hanging around next to my garden all day and in the evening with those 2 businesses start. It is not a public communal area there.

The shed in their garden, according to the builder, has asbestos and I am very worried about how he deal with it as well.

I would be most grateful if anyone could support me to object his new planning, please.

Thanking you in anticipation.

Regards,

Asbestos is only a problem when you damage it or try to remove it...

The landlord applied planning permission 2 months ago to remove the shed and construct a place for another business in the middle of his back garden next to mine, in addition to the front business. I feel hopeless.

Reported many times to environmental health but they have not changed anything so far. The extraction venting system seems to set quite low for me. I don't want that continuous noise and cooking smell and smoke all day long but they won't do anything, which is very upsetting.  

Recently they started a makeover in front. They start usually late afternoon until mid-evening. Today again I had extreme drilling and sawing noise inside my house. I was not informed about it in advance as before. The last time I wrote to the landlord, they replied to me saying some rude unpleasant wards with my name being put rather a rude way at the end. I approached begging for their consideration for calm and better relationship for both of us but didn't work, unfortunately.

 I asked the Haringey officer to write to them regarding rules when they do construction work. But I am not sure if they really do it...

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