Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
no right turn out of hewit road
Hi there, just keeping this one going. There are a couple of weeks left to make objections to the proposals to stop traffic turning right out of hewit road.
As discussed on a couple of previous threads, this could significantly increase traffic heading down Pemberton Road, right next to an Infant school, a junior school and the children's centre.
If you think it's unreasonable to create a situation that directly increases risk to children travelling to these venues then do take a couple of minutes to object. Instructions below...
Send an email to
frontline.consultation@haringey.gov.uk (with 'no right turn' in the title line) outlining your objection.
Whilst it's fine to explore options to redistribute traffic around the ladder...ideas like this which will only result in displacing traffic towards areas of high family footfall is not a sensible one in my opinion.
Cheers
Paul
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by pipplypig on
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Also, there are many families living on all the ladder roads and many of them have to cross the traffic ridden ones like Hewit to get to school. Surely it makes sense that traffic is distributed evenly rather than preserving the peace for a select few?
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Permalink Reply by Paul Harvey on
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I completely agree that the ideal would be a situation whereby traffic is nicely distributed across the area and not forced down one or two roads. What this no right turn is suggesting however, will force a very large amount of traffic to an area with a disproportionately high number of children coming and going....I.e. to the schools and childrens centre. It is not going to evenly distribute traffic, just displace it. It should be fairly obvious that this is not a good idea.
Clearly what's needed is a holistic review of the whole area, not a 'quick fix' that shifts traffic directly away from one street and onto another.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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The only possible way that could happen is if there is complete gridlock everywhere (which we do have some mornings) or very little traffic. You can fiddle all you like, the traffic will find a way.
I say give this a go and we'll have Ant's counts to tell us how much of an impact it has.
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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I doubt its possible to get a completely even distribution across all the Ladder roads, and, i don't think its what should be aiming for. Some roads because of the situation will have an easy fix, others may be harder and they just have to accept more traffic than others. And i think places like schools and parks should have priority, but thats the type of consultation the we should be having and the council should be asking our views about.
In my view it seems really really wrong to be just moving traffic from Hewit to Pemberton like this when it has primary schools and nursery. The sole justification we've been given for this was in the original statutory notification - "This will benefit the pedestrian environment and will maximise the potential for the new high quality public space at the St Ann’s Road and Green Lanes junction." - it seems all that the people in charge care about is Green Lanes.They know this is wrong. If it was in any way right the local politicians would be trying to publicly claim responsibility for getting it to happen, but they're not - try to find anyone who will admit they had a hand in making this happen.
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Permalink Reply by Mike on
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I don't think its about just moving traffic around between Ladder Roads. Traffic northwards on Green Lanes is frequently (usually?) pretty jammed up until the St Anne's Road turn off. I have no quantative data to back it up, but from what I've seen, most of the traffic turning right out of Hewit Road seems to be also headed for St Anne's Road, and further exacerbates the bottleneck by partially blocking Green Lanes in an attempt to cross over to St Anne's. If the primary source of this traffic is southbound from Wightman Road it surely would be unlikely to turn into Pemberton to get to Green Lanes & then St Annes, but would use one of the W to E ladder Roads north of Hewit? I personally think that the no right turn from Hewit is worth a go, however the trouble with this debate is that there is no available data upon which to make decisions. We really need a traffic survey to baseline the current flows in order to underpin an assessment of the impact of this or any other changes.
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So if the Hewit no right turn happens then whats needed is something to compensate against a traffic increase on Pemberton, lets say the Pemberton direction is reversed as well as the Hewit no right turn. So that would mean massive reduction in traffic on Hewit which is good, less congestion at the St Anns junction which is good, and, a massive reduction of traffic on Pemberton which is really good. Ducket Rd would suffer an increase in traffic which is a shame for them, but its one of the quieter streets presently so maybe thats fair given all the other plus points?I think you're suggesting that its likely that more of the Hewit traffic is from coming up Wightman from the south rather than down Wightman from the north. That seems plausible and it means Pemberton could be even more badly impacted from a Hewit no right turn than Beresford would be.And I think you're also suggesting that trying a Hewit no right turn might be a good thing as it could help with the congestion on Green Lanes at the St Anns junction. However the problem is it would increase the traffic on Pemberton by two schools and a nursery and thats a bad thing.
Thats the sort of thing the council should be consulting about, at least it would show they're thinking about the problems.
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I disagree. People will prefer Beresford as turning out of Pemberton into the traffic south of St Ann's will require "chutzpah". Making a right out of Beresford is much easier. The roads south of Hewit (apart from Warham) are protected by the Gardens, I suspect they see much less traffic but I guess your counter will show us that.
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This is Beresford, it looks very similar to Pemberton, the afternoon peak on Beresford is later than on Pemberton so i guess is more commuter traffic than school runs:
This is Burgoyne, pretty busy, though i guess a lot of that could be south bound from WIghtman continuing on south on Green Lanes:
I've not done Ducket yet.
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These are interesting, how did you get hold of them?
Are there similar outputs for Pemberton and Hewit roads?
Good to move this conversation on from the hypothetical to measurements of what's really happening.
What's really needed on Hewit and Pemberton is an idea of the proportion of traffic turning right/left both into and out of them. That's the only way we'll really know what's going on here.
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Why would you turn left out of Hewit if you didn't live there? Just continue on a little further and turn left out of Beresford without queueing behind people waiting to turn right out of Hewit. You don't miss out on anything on the other side of the ladder.
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No I'm suggesting the majority of traffic turning right on Hewit Rd currently originates from southbound (ie N to S) traffic on Wightman Rd - hence the conclusion that if a right turn at Hewit Rd/Green Lanes was prohibited, the traffic would attempt to join Green Lanes from one of the Ladder roads N of Hewit.
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John - I agree that it doesn't make sense to turn left out of Hewit unless you live there, but people do - I've followed cars down there from the top and seen them queue and then turn left. Crazy but true...
Mike - I'd disagree with your view that 'most' of the traffic heading down Hewit road was previously heading south on Wightman Road. That doesn't tally with what I see. It's a much more even split. That 'no right turn' proposal would indeed cause some traffic to cut down to Green Lanes further north, but a similar proportion would cut down further south - hence the concerns Ant and I have about increased traffic to Pemberton and the impact this would have on children/families to-ing and fro-ing from the schools and the childrens centre.
Ultimately though - people could argue the toss all day on this, what's needed is some hard evidence to estimate the likely impact of this change. It would be madness to impose a change without proper evidence-based consideration of the consequences.
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