Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Tonight I attended a meeting at the Civic Centre run by external consultants and attended by residents groups, councillors traders and Harringay Online.

The invitation explained it as:

a meeting to help develop initial concept designs for physical measures to improve the Green Lanes corridor within the borough.

As an important District Centre within the London Borough of Haringey, Green Lanes is a vibrant place that has many positive attributes. However, the public realm of the street itself could do far more to help Green Lanes become an even more successful place. Understanding the existing concerns and aspirations of those who live, work and use the area is crucial to ensuring that the future design of the street helps fulfils this potential. Therefore, we are asking you to inform and guide the development of concept design proposals.

On arrival I was able to establish that in fact there's' a likley fund of £1.2m TfL money earmarked for the "Green Lanes Corridor" between Turnpike Lane & the borough boundary half way down Finsbury Park. When I asked if there were specific objectives which the money needed to meet and how wide the corridor was, the response suggested that things were somewhat flexible in these respects.

The meeting chiefly consisted of those residents, councillors and politicians present outlining what they felt the key issues were. there was also some discussion.

There were few surprises in the issues raised - see the HoL Twiiter stream reproduced below for details. Neither was it particularly shocking that some passions and tensions became very evident through the evening.

The issue of major contention once again seems to be the flow of traffic through the residential streets - nothing better guarantees polarising local interests - in this case the Gardens on one side, traders and Ladder residents on the other.

There were a few outbursts and some grumpiness but by and large things were pretty civilised.

This really is a great opportunity to make some significant quality of life enhancing changes to our neighbourhood. I really hope as a group we can agree on a balance that satisfies all. In so doing I very much hope that the tough decisions are neither dodged nor fudged.

At the end of the meeting, I asked whether, in this environment of devolved budgets and community empowerment, residents could have a say in the decision, rather than just being involved in the consultation. Amidst the shocked silence and paper shuffling. I was pleased to hear Cllr Zena Brabazon supporting this. Well, you never know, do you.

The next step will be in November when the external consultants report back with some "practical possibilities". It's not clear to me what opportunity there will be for a wider group to get involved, but if you have any comments / recommendations, the lead consultant is Oliver Davey, 020 7380 4560, o.davey@urbaninitiatives.co.uk.

Harringay Online  Twitter Timeline for 18:00 to 20:30, 13th October 2010 covering a meeting at the Civic Centre to discuss recommendations to spend £1.2m of TfL funding on Harringay’s “Green Lanes Corridor”

At Civic Centre hearing that Green Lanes corridor is likely to get £1.2m for improvement over 3 years. Just about to hear of what those around the table fell are the key issues for Harringay about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific


1. It's designed for traffic not pedestrians or cyclists. Parts of Green Lanes feel like a dual carriageway l about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific


2. Cllr Adamou - Jct with St Ann's & 1 way system & east west traffic is a problem. Need a crossing on GL near Frobisher about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific


3. Cllr Brabazon - closure of Hermitage a problem. That and Gardens closure causes Ladder traffic problems about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific


4. Cllr Alexander endorses above about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific


Cllr Alexander also raising problems with Sainsbury's traffic about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific

Discussing priorities for Harringay at the Civic Centre http://twitpic.com/2xbnbx about 2 hours ago via Twitpic Poster for iPhone


5. Ian. Sygrave LCSP - Bendy buses a real problem for traffic & on board crime about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific


Things getting heated over Gardens closure - Gardens residents defend; traders & other residents see it as a problem about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific


Cllr Schmitz focuses on Frobisher Road crossing, speed on GL north of St Ann's, unfair parking signing. Speaks of need to balance interests about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific


Cllr Schmitz on where the traffic is forced in Harringay "the rats are forced to dress left rather than right". about 2 hours ago via Twitterrific


Shefik Mehmet of Harringay traders makes impassioned case for opening Gardens & Hermitage Road & improving parking for traders about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific


Shefik demands improvement for the bridge. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific


Haringey Council planted 73 trees and left them to die says Mehmet. They only lived because he watered them. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific


More requests for traffic improvements to help cyclists. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific

Frds of Chestnuts want a crossing on Blackboy Lane; improving cycle access to Finsbury Park. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific


Cycling voices very very highly represented here tonight. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific


Frds of Chestnuts also want more trees on Green Lanes, benches for older people & public toilets & space for allotments. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific


GRA - revisit right hand turn into St Ann's, 20 mph on Green Lanes; Tokyo style crossing at Warham/Salisbury about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific


GRA - enforcement of southbound bus lane to enforce Iceland truck that parks every morning from 8.30 to 9.30 about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific


GRA want Warwick & Stanhope's status as part of national cycle route recognised. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific


GRA - Gardens closure must remain about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific


GRA - English Heritage funding needed on a par with what given to Tottenham. Cllr Brabazon says it's a nightmare getting it. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific


GRA - green the Green Lanes wall of Homebase. about 1 hour ago via Twitterrific

Tags for Forum Posts: Corridor, Green, Lanes, consultation, traffic

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Very interesting Hugh, thank you very much for attending and tweeting.

TfL gave the council £5m to build Mary Neuner Way, let's see if we can get better value for money out of this pot.
Raises fascinating questions about the use of Twitter by one participant to relay and record an ongoing discussion.

(I wasn't at the meeting. My partner Zena Brabazon took part as a St Ann's ward councillor. Although she hasn't yet seen either this thread or Hugh's tweets.)
What's the particular interest Alan?

(BTW All local Councillors have been invited by email to comment onthis thread).
"What's the particular interest?"

Because I spent several years researching with and about teams which work collectively and cooperatively.

And one of the key lessons I learned was the huge value of creating spaces and times where people can genuinely come together: to listen and learn from one another; discuss and debate in an open inclusive way; change their minds, form new questions and ideas; reflect; and build judgement.
I'm less fascinated than you since it's an exactly similar process to age old journalism. One person observes something and reports on what they see. The difference here is that I've posted everything I wrote and made it available for additions of fact or perspective.
You posed a question, Hugh, but didn't wait for my reply.

With the collective teams who gave me permission to interview and record their members, and to attend and sometimes tape their meetings; my agreement was that they'd see and be able to comment on and correct transcripts and drafts of what I wrote. Perhaps contrary to what you might expect, that seemed to free them up to be very candid and self-critical.
That's great Alan, but I wasn't there in a facilitating role. As well as contributing as a resident, I was one of two people there reporting & taking pictures. The other was from the Turkish Times. Everyone at the table was aware that the meeting was being reported.

As far a an opportunity to comment is concerned. People have that chance here.
Can I just again remind everyone that Mary Neuner Way cost £5 million and is 400m long.

We're getting some planters and a nice crossing so the lib dems have nothing to campaign on next time.
For the Record please find all the proposals put forward to the Corridors meeting -
Andy GRA

Gardens Residents Assoc (GRA) suggestions for TFL Corridor Green Lanes Workshop 1 –
Date: 13.10.10 (V2)

• Redesign right turning into St Ann's Road and visit with issue of bus stop- This blocks up Northbound Green Lanes
• The Bridge ( Entrance Gateway) Design and implement a permanent solution.
• 20mph Green Lanes
• Tokyo Style crossing at the junction of Salisbury Warham Rd & Green Lanes - very Dangerous crossing timings
• Redesigning pedestrian crossings on Green Lanes –
Perhaps with Physical countdown timers on the pedestrian crossing quicker activation crossing times for pedestrians and hung Lights high up so Lorry drivers can see the lamps changing.
• Enforcement of Bus Lane ( Southbound ) to prevent fine and tow away Iceland delivery truck at approx 8.30am to
9.30am every morning Mon to Fri – no action taken for years.
• Cycle Route Provision – Apparently Stanhope Gds & Warwick Gds are part of the National cycle network.

The Street
• Refurbishment / restoration of Grand Parade architecture (inc Gas Lamps)-(Pos Heritage Lottery Funding - Regen)
• Greening of Green Lanes - more tree's & planting
• New Pavements - it is becoming more & more dangerous with trip hazards etc.
• De- cluttering of Green Lanes including reducing sign posts/poles street furniture etc. move items to Lamp Columns
• Ban / reduce Estate Agents Boards.
• Revisit the legality of the permanent structures overhanging Green Lanes (this could be linked with Refurb/Regen)
• Rubbish Collection for Flats on Green Lanes to be revisit to prevent headers being dumped on
• More Rubbish Bins and Recycling Bins – especially around Bus stops
• New Gate at Finsbury Park / Endymion Rd – Green Lanes Opposite Homebase
• Arena Shopping Area ( Homebase Wall facing Park) – Green Up with Tensile structure and climbing plants similar to
The Bullring Imax – Waterloo

Outside Green Lanes
• Gardens Area - Require double yellow lines on all street corners ( requesting for over 10 years )
• 20mph Limit in Gardens (only residential area left that is not 20mph)
• 20mph around all Schools – North & South Harringay & Chestnuts Schools
• Pedestrian / Pelican Crossing on Black Boy Lane - Entrance to Chestnuts Park
That's great. Many thanks, Andy. My thumbs couldn't keep up!



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