Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Interesting article re; Warehouse Community and LBH
Tags for Forum Posts: local plan 2014, warehouse district
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Along with the descriptions of the parties this has just made me utterly envious. Beautiful large spaces and lots of natural light. Why can't we call have an opportunity to live like this?
I have wondered for a couple of years now where all the hip young people who queue up for the cheap Turkish restaurants in the evenings and sit outside on Green Lanes in the sunshine gobbling their fry ups come from. Why is it that The Finsbury became a fantastic venue when it used to be a crap football pub? I've seen no hip young "creative types" living on the ladder (hip old creatives of course). So I've asked around and thought about it. Harringay has become even cooler, and our house prices even more exorbitant because of these people, as far as I can work out.
I don't want to see them go but I do want their rubbish collected and their parties to be a little more inclusive or quiet. I think the council tax issue is a problem that should be left to the landlords and their local councillors to address.
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Permalink Reply by ingo pless on
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I live in the first one, done 16 years ago. The Finsbury transformed via my friend's Av collective "Looking Sound" packed gigs evidencing the viability of fitting it out and promoting it as a music hub. Have been asked to put stuff into the Woodberry Estate boozer and Redmond Centre for similar ends.
I do not think council tax is such an issue, we have a 16 history of paying for it on our conversion, the rubbish can be and chair of South Tottenham Residents' Assoc is on our side - blaming veolia, rather than the warehouse residents.
We drove "cool" into Harringay, and still do - give us a cut of the property equity.
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I have always thought it was a shame that the young people renting and using the restaurants did not get a cut of the equity increases that we see but now that I know that they live in beautiful places like that, I'm not so bothered.
I disagree about the council tax. A lot. It's a huge issue, although as I said, probably not your bag. Conservatively I estimate that the council is being short changed around three quarters of a million pounds a year. That's enough to issue asbos to 90 young men, or even keep some youth centres running.
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Sorry typo "16 year history".
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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But - it's one or two scamming landlords who are benefitting most. What do their tax returns look like? Can someone living there tell us how you pay rent - cash/cheques/DDs?
Looks like a prime contender for a bunch of CPOs and turn these into legit social housing, self-managed.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I was disappointed by the article which doesn't seem to take things much further than comments on the main HoL thread. In fact it's broadly a rehash of many of the same points - though mostly from the perspective of the residents in the former factory premises.
I was hoping, for example, that the journalists would have met and reported a wider range of voices from the local neighbourhood.
At least to me, the interesting newer material was in the comments below the article. These include allegations (admittedly with no evidence) about one of the owners/landlords. I'd have thought that journalists needed to look at that - if only to dismiss it as unsubstantiated.
The article included comments from some residents living in the buildings who welcomed the Council's concerns about safety and the need for inspection. However, it seemed that overall the balance was against this view. Including some suggestion that the Council's "cabinet" reports were biased and inaccurate.
One resident is quoted as saying:
“We’re not forced to live anywhere, if we didn’t feel safe we wouldn’t be renting this place.” With an unlikely job in risk management – the majority of tenants are in the creative industries – Bram feels well-placed to give his stamp of approval. “We wish the council would just come and visit the units, instead of speculating on their condition”.
If I was a "cabinet" councillor this would be a red light - or at least amber. What is the true position - building by building and unit by unit? I've suggested that this information should be publicly available - both for the safety of residents in these buildings and for their visitors.
The article suggests a fairly strong cooperative ethos among these residents. Maybe someone who reads this thread can say whether such information exists and has been widely circulated? Do people know with a fair degree of certainty that their homes are safe?
I'm also curious to know how far what seems fairly successful self-organising has now extended to meeting and building common cause with nearby local residents? And has it now sorted out problems like noise and waste dumping? So perhaps these sorts of comments on HoL are now outdated?
The article seems to suggest that the email from Cllr Claire Kober may not be quite the assurance that Hannie P seemed to think in this posting. A great pity. I was hoping that in this instance Cllr Kober might finally have made the right judgement call.
Lastly, I understand that some councillors have been to view these premises - perhaps with Council officers from Haringey's Building Control service. Has anyone any information about these visits and their purpose?
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor. alan.stanton@virgin.net )
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Hi Alan,
We had 2 visits in our's.
Planning first - the proper submissions were made and inspected 16 years ago.
Then a follow up to look a fire compliance, this I think with environmental health, fire, perhaps also police presence - regs have changed over 16 years so there is minor work to be done.
Think it was the fire officer that said "I'd like to live here".
I would argue that the article does take things further by actually speaking to people on the ground in our estates.
An element of common cause was established via a group we set up a few years back The Arena Association - the effectively promoting an awareness of noise nuisance, which actually annoyed us as well.
I am working, self funded, with MHDT under the PACT to establish pathways for 2 way resourcing - I am donating a kiln to them as accessible community arts resource and drawing training into our patch. I hope to establish work placement pathways into creative industries for local residents both in and outside of the warehouse district, equally integrating participative arts into woodberry down for example.
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I agree, Hannie, that nobody can make binding promises about someone else's property. Nor about Planning law; Use Classes and future development.
But there's nothing to stop any politician with power from trying to say and do something a little more constructive. While being honest about what they can and can't do.
So yes, essential safety concerns are sensible and welcome.
But, I'd also have liked a statement showing understanding about what's happened across London and in other cities: i.e the "caravan" of hundreds (thousands?) of small creative businesses being first welcomed by developers; and then moved on when it became more advantageous to develop land and buildings more lucratively.
It seems that Hackney got this point. And, so I think, so did their Mayor Jules Pipe. On the other hand, reading an article about Hackney Wick, there are tensions between different groups which echo those in parts of Haringey.
So with the factory/warehouse areas of Haringey I'd have liked:
- an expression of some real and evident enthusiasm about the skills and creativity being brought to the area.
- together with a "best endeavours" undertaking to explore if and how this might be safeguarded in some way.
- Including perhaps some work to facilitate links with schools and other local institutions - ideas mentioned by several people on HoL.
Then I'd have expected some expression of understanding and strong concerns about the significant problems caused by some - perhaps a small minority - of factory/warehouse residents to other nearby residents.
- With some undertaking to seek ways of tackling these problems more quickly and effectively than seems to have been the case. Bearing in mind that an elected "cabinet" politician does have access to - increasingly limited but real - resources. Including staff with skills in mediating between groups in contention.
Well, maybe that happened and we don't know. But it doesn't seem so.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Hannie, I'm talking about the real world; not some ideal or idealised world.
In my real world, people get jobs with local councils and get elected to local councils who try to work together to solve real-world problems. And - hopefully - not just the immediate and pressing symptoms of problems but trying to understand causes and find ways of "upstream prevention".
Okay, there are other 'players' in every 'game'. And factors beyond all our control. But I don't accept or believe that because an ideal has never been realised, it follows that small important gains towards it are impossible.
I also rather like John Cage's advice to people who feel paralysed because they don't know where to start:"Start anywhere".
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