Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
How European Do You Feel?
At a social event on the Ladder over the weekend, conversation turned to Brexit. I mentioned that one of the reasons I am sad/angry/embarrassed about the direction we've been taken is because I feel European. Two of the people I was chatting with, although ardent Reaminers, responded that they didn't really fell at all European.
So, it got me wondering how people in general feel about their European identities. I'm happily a Londoner, an Englishman, a Brit and a European; all identities can live happily side by side. How do you feel?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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And Erasmus.. make sure your kids do it.. It's so worthwhile
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But you obviously use the EU for your own personal benefit.. Otherwise you wouldn't be in the U.K. or at least wouldn't be able to work freely, start a business or do whatever you choose.
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Because as a South American, it wouldn't be possible for you to work, where you want or start a business.. or whatever.. you do that through your Dutch passport I guess..
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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That doesn't surprise me, Jessica. You're a South American living in London. I can get that you could feel like a Londoner where identity is quickly forged. I think it would take most people longer to feel European.
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Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
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And my mother, Jessica, has lived here in London for 6 decades having only lived in Belgium for her first 18 years.... but interestingly she couldn't remember the Belgian national anthem when the football was on! Still hung on to her Belgian passport all these years though....can you envisage going back to South America? I think that's the test of where you think "home" is. My mother told me she knew she wasn't ever going home when she caught herself doing her mental arithmetic in English and not French!
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Come on, Hugh.. you are now contradicting the point of your own thread..
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Completely possible, but I have no idea in which way you think I'm doing so.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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So could it be the freedom of movement thing seeing as it's not the language thing? There's a "slight" barrier leaving the UK and coming back, even for British/EU passport holders.
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I feel quite European until I actually go there and realise I'm not!
As someone else said, it's partly about borders, languages etc: my youngest child was intrigued to see that the train we recently took from The Hague to Amsterdam had actually started off from Brussels.
I think part of feeling European is because we have adopted a few aspects of European lifestyle/culture in the last decade, maybe longer. For example, children are routinely welcomed in cafes etc now compared to when my first child was born, there are far more cafes and restaurants, and more people eat out or are interested in food (not forgetting wine of course!) And yet languages are not being taught in schools to the same level as before.
My father was Anglo-Indian so that's another part of my identity.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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I'm not sure it's possible to feel European.
Each country has its own specific culture and generally looks down on their neighbours. The French despise the Belgians who, in turn laugh at the Dutch who mock the Frieslanders. Even in Brussels, Centre of Europe, there are French bistros, English pubs, Irish drinking dens, Caledonian Societies, US bars, Gilbert and Sullivan concerts. People tend to stick to their own kind.
Like Britain and the US, their common language separates Austrians from Germans. Greece and Turkey are not best buddies. Half of them speak Latin-based languages while the other half talk Slavic.
I worked for ten years in a European organisation where it was impossible to get the northern cabal to agree anything with the southern mafia.
What do you understand by " European " Hugh ?
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Look, people who live near borders, tend to make fun of others, mostly on the other side, who are different. It's divide and rule, them and us, a base human response. That doesn't mean it should be carried to National or International level.
Whether it be in Haringey, where many Westerners, commonly known as snobs, hate the Easterners, commonly known as prols or v.v., it's the same on the German Austrian or Czech borders or in the past between the Soviet Union and U.S.A. That's how humans tick, but doesn't mean that these feelings should institutionalised. BTW, Languages tended not to follow political (mostly imposed) borders at all. post-WW2 that has changed slightly.
Ask a German about his dutch neighbours and he'll say that they are lanky, often uncoordinated and have a weird sense of humour, as well as eating tons of licorice. Languages and the word play in them, causes this BTW.
Your example of Frisians is good one. The language and the people are spread well over the Dutch, German border from NL into Ostfriesland in Germany. A very good place, by the way, to study the transformation of the German Language via Dutch into English. The word Dutch derives of course from Deutsch = German. Anyway, my point is. Get away from these man made borders, look outwards, rather than inwards. The E.U. is, was and will remain the only way to get worthwhile international co-operation within Europe. The U.K. has already started trying to slip out of it's environmental responsibilities to it's neighbours. Doesn't bode well for the future.
But the mood music from EU countries is that the U.K. is deluding itself if it thinks it will get a deal on it's terms.
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I guess I have in mind a mix of values, culture, way of life and geography, but I haven't overthought it.
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