Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Hooligan Cyclists
When are the police going to take action on law-breaking cyclists?
Twice today, within the space of half an hour, I turned (in my car, so of course it was probably my fault) into one of the one-way Ladder roads and was nearly hit by a cyclist going the wrong way. Then I get shouted at by the cyclist who thinks it's my fault that he's stupid.
Twice today, within the space of half an hour, I turned (in my car, so of course it was probably my fault) into one of the one-way Ladder roads and was nearly hit by a cyclist going the wrong way. Then I get shouted at by the cyclist who thinks it's my fault that he's stupid.
Tags for Forum Posts: Wightman Road, cycling
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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This from the man who joined me while I was waiting in the bicycle only advanced stop area outside Sainsburys one evening recently... on his moped! I stand by my assertion that I see as many drivers run red lights (yeah they were amber recently sure) as I do cyclists. I think the official statistic is 15% of cyclists routinely run red lights.
As a pedestrian recently crossing Bishopsgate I walked across while the pedestrian light was red in full view of a carload of policemen (who were by the way also encroaching onto the cyclists only advanced stop area). I looked at them, looked at the light and looked at them again... they wondered what I was on about probably.
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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It's a Scooter John, Vespa PX 200, mopeds are 50cc.
Knowing what I know now, I can understand where your distorted truth comes from John. As you know I saw you and approached you in the cycling area to have a chat. You know this and you see it fit to you it as your argument.
15% is hogwash and you know it, certainly not in London, possibly nationally but I couldn't comment. I challenge you to come with me anytime in central London to measure this. I pointed this out to a Cycling Lobby group when I was stopped on my bike in Islington one day. I asked him to join me in on looking to watch the majority of cyclists ignore the red light, he was embarrassed and said it wasn't representative of cyclists normally. The usual ignorant rhetoric I'm afraid that taints cyclists and the lobbyists.
I am a cyclist. I have nothing to gain from my stance; I am just honest and speaking common sense not spouting propaganda because I am cyclist. I want better facilities for cyclists and would campaign for it but they win few allies with their attitudes and excuses.
As far as I am concerned if the police want to stop cyclists or motorists that don't adhere to traffic regulations, they have my full support.
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a. you're as bad at taking a joke as I am
b. even you didn't seem to think it was to bad a thing to do
I think I said "15% ROUTINELY" run red lights.
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a - yes you are right
b - yes it was, but I was being sociable, wont do it again yer miserable sod : )
15% ROUTINELY at national level maybe, but you wouldn't argue with my 40 - 85% conclusion in London then?
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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I was going to throw myself into this discussion, but Rahman and Birdy have now said what I wanted to say. Hear hear!!!
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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I'm a cyclist and a driver and a pedestrian.
On a bad day I'd say all three groups are as bad as each other; the only issue is who can potentially cause the most damage (which is surely the driver). But I do get a bit fed up of cyclists moaning; I often get to work fuming at how badly they can behave when they are on the road. This going through on red is just balony - 9 times out of 10 it has nothing to do with your safety and everything to do with not being bothered to stop. And I think it just gives us such a bad name.
Sure - lots of drivers drive badly. And I do think that people can be selective in picking out the very visible and wrong things that cyclists do, while forgetting about the equally awful (and far more potentially catastrophic) things drivers do. (Personally I'm far less aware of people driving through red lights than I am of speeding cars and people turning left without really looking.) But none of this absolves cyclists from their responsibiilties.
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There is no doubt that cars, vans, lorries and buses are more dangerous to cyclists, motorcyclists and pedestrians for obvious reasons but cyclists are also a danger to every other road user too if ridden in an anarchic manner. Just because the fatal statistics don’t mirror that of vehicle related fatalities doesn’t mean that the cycling lobby can bury their heads in the sand and not address issues, whether that be safety or anti social
Until the cyclists can be self critical, condemn and push for cyclists to act in a safer way the cycling lobby will struggle to get the masses on their side. How refreshing would it be for cyclists and the lobbyists to push for a cycling safety code instead of pointing the finger of blame at everyone other than cyclists. This is not a game of who’s worse, it is a collective responsibility of all road users and organisations to address all the problems that are created by all that use the roads
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This is a safety issue, sure may not be on the scale of HGV / bike related deaths but the causes of any cycle deaths need to be addressed:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23479658-details/Cyc...
Mainly for Adam : )
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Permalink Reply by Adam on
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The main cycling campaign groups did sign up to the the Transport for London Share The Road campaign in 2006
Here is a statement put out by walking and cycling groups at the time.
Research carried out for Transport for London by independent consultants TRL, found that, on average, just under 18% of cyclists ran red lights, whereas over a third of motorists encroached into cyclists’ “Advance Stop Lines” (i.e. cycle boxes at traffic lights). For more information see page 24 of this report
Errant cycling is indeed an antisocial behaviour issue rather than a road safety problem. Figures released by Transport for London in 2006 when Share The Road was launched, show that pedestrians in London are far more likely to be injured in collision with motor vehicles than pedal cycles, even on the pavement. In 2001-05, the number of reported pedestrian injuries from collisions with motor vehicles was 34,791, compared with just 331 injuries arising from collisions with cyclists. Even on the pavement, there were 2197 reported pedestrian injuries arising from collisions with motor vehicles, including 17 fatalities. By contrast, just one pedestrian was killed in collision with a cyclist, and this took place when the pedestrian was crossing the road (this incident did not take place at a junction with traffic lights), not using a footway.
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Was the person who died in the above link anti social or not riding safely? Are cars that jump red lights or mount pavements anti social or bad motorists driving recklessly?
Calling it anti social shifts the burden of responsibility so you don't feel the need to be answerable to people who have grievances with this issue. The "they're worse than us" route doesn't stand up in my view. The injuries sustained by cyclists are usually of a lesser nature and rarely fatal, but does that mean non-fatal incidents cannot be addressed?
This debate is not a them and us campaign, which is what you are trying portray, cyclists and the cycling lobby seem to think they are immune from legislation, criticism and the need to address problems that cyclists cause rather than motorists.
Again, I will invite anyone to come with me with cameras to central London and see this "<18%", maybe I ride in a parallel universe to everyone else when I cross Seven Sisters Road?
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Permalink Reply by rahman on
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The fact that being struck by a motor vehicle is much more likely to be fatal in comparison to a similar collision with a cycle is a no brainer. The fatality statistics are therefore not surprising. I dont think anyone would really debate that at all. However, reducing erratic cycling to anti social behaviour rather than that of road safety only makes a mockery of the issue - and the only people that lose out are the cyclists themselves.
As a pedestrian, i have the sense not to step out on to a road at a bend where cars are unlikely to see me - like at the top of seymour/ wightman where visibility is poor. If i did decide to cross there and got knocked down, would it really be entirely the driver's fault? no. similarly, where cyclists risk their own safety by undercutting motorists and stopping in their blind spot at lights, is it entirely the motorist's fault? i would say no too.
I think it is vitally important that all cyclists should have to pass a road safety test and be given some form of a licence before they are allowed to go out on to our roads - for their own protection, noone elses.
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