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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Help! Early Hours Noise Disturbances from local Public House

Does anybody have any advice on what courses of action are open to me in dealing with regular noise disturbances from the public house across the road from me in the early hours of the morning (typically between 12pm and 3am)?

The Public House in question has a licence to sell alcohol until 1am all days of the week except Friday and Saturdays when they have a licence until 2am. Patrons have an hours drinking up time and so this results in people not leaving the premises until 2am/3am.

The noise can take the form of loud music, shouting, singing, smoking and drinking alcohol directly outside the premises on the street. I was awoken several times yesterday evening and at around 2am I went over the public house to speak to the landlord about the noise on the street. He informed me that this was not his problem and that he would be doing nothing to resolve the situation.

I'm aware that that the council has an out of hours Enforcement Team to deal with issues of noise. Complaints have been raised historically (this has been an issue for the last couple of years since a change in ownership at the public house) with the enforcement response team, but this never seems to relate to a change in behaviour on behalf of the public house.

Anybody have any thoughts on next steps? Who should I contact? Licensing Team to get a review of their licence? Local police? Local Councillors?

Thanks

Mark

Tags for Forum Posts: noise

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lauren on February 23, 2015 at 13:24
The question isn't are they being disturbed legally or indeed reasonably, but should they be being disturbed at all?
0zz1v0en520j4Permalink Reply by 0zz1v0en520j4 on February 23, 2015 at 13:30

The question is, should everyone else in the community be penalised because one person is disturbed by something? Pleasing everyone is impossible. We please the absolute majority who enjoy the pub, and those who live around it, and that's the most we can do Lauren. If we shut down everything based on one person's complaint, it would hardly be fair to the rest of the population. In any case, we have noted the complaint and will continue to do our best by the community, as we always have. We regret that a resident has been upset, and take that on board too. 

Permalink Reply by Lauren on February 23, 2015 at 13:51
But I don't think Mark is asking you to "penalise everyone else in the community". He is asking you to ensure that the very small minority of punters who stay in your establishment drinking til 2am curb their antisocial behaviour that is causing him considerable anxiety (which you do acknowledge is a problem) so that he can sleep at night. I don't think it's an unreasonable request.


I like the HA and it is an asset to the community, so I don't have a problem with you personally, but there IS an issue here that needs resolving by you. And I mean that in the best possible way.
Permalink Reply by Sharon on February 23, 2015 at 14:09
A good place to start would be for Ben to contact Mark privately on HOL and invite him over to discuss and acknowledge Mark's concerns privately.
0zz1v0en520j4Permalink Reply by 0zz1v0en520j4 on February 23, 2015 at 14:19

Thanks Sharon, Mark isn't the person's real name. We know the person, like them, respect them, and our doors are always open. If Mark wants to make a complaint, he knows where to find us. We'd also like an apology for the abuse to staff. So why don't you let us play this out in our own time. It's been great to engage with you and I hope you have gained an insight into the work we do to protect the community. If you have any other concerns please let me know, I'm happy to keep this forum alive, in the interest of community transparency for anyone who wants to read it. Thanks again Sharon for your thoughts on the matter.

Permalink Reply by Sharon on February 23, 2015 at 14:36
You could still contact him privately on here under the name he is using. To describe your dramatic version of events and to reveal that Mark is not his real name doesn't seem to be showing him any respect at all.
0zz1v0en520j4Permalink Reply by 0zz1v0en520j4 on February 23, 2015 at 14:43

Thanks Sharon. Appreciate your message. We have a better understanding of our ongoing relationship with this person and how best to approach it. We'll work it out. Have a lovely day.

Permalink Reply by Sharon on February 23, 2015 at 15:18
Best of luck.
Permalink Reply by Lauren on February 23, 2015 at 14:19
Sure, I understand this (I've also been a licensee myself).

If the noise is a result of his pub being open til 2am then this will be considered (regardless of whether it happens in the pub or as people are leaving), along with any complaints from residents for future applications and license reviews.

I'm not sure what else he can do to make sure that the procedures that are in place are being followed, but it is his responsibility to do so. I hope this can be sorted out amicably. Perhaps it is better for them to discuss it over a coffee rather than on here.
0zz1v0en520j4Permalink Reply by 0zz1v0en520j4 on February 23, 2015 at 14:02

Thanks Lauren, We don't acknowledge a problem, I've simply stated the processes we use to ensure there are no disturbances. If ever any, they are indeed extremely rare. There is definitely not a problem and what I have already highlighted is indeed us curbing any antisocial behaviour. To the point where it barely exists. I don't think it is unreasonable for Mark to make a complaint either, but it is the manner in which it is made which needed highlighting here and which was the reason I felt compelled to reply. Unfortunately once people leave the establishment, and have been asked to go quietly and moved along by staff, it is impossible for us to physically remove them from the entire street, and what they choose to do after they have left our care, is not something we can take responsibility for. On occasion, we ask them to move, they move 20 metres down the road, we ask them again, they move a little further. We can't send staff out into the night to push these people into their homes and tuck them up into bed. At some point our responsibilities have to end and they have to be responsible for their own behaviour. But I assure you we do the very best we can. And as I said, these cases are rare. In any case, thanks for your comments, it is appreciated. 

Permalink Reply by Philip on February 23, 2015 at 19:20

Ben you say it's 'only one person' and you say you don't 'acknowledge a problem'. This is the 'managing expectations' school of public relations. You serve alcohol until 2 am. Its legal. But nevertheless you have caused the problem and it IS your responsibility. You can spin all you like but they are the facts.

Permalink Reply by Antoinette on February 23, 2015 at 22:11
That's such a cop out. There is no God given right to disturb people just because you choose to get drunk. I consider the right to be able to sleep undisturbed far outweighs that.

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