Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay Green Lanes scheme - 21 June deadline for comments
Residents, Residents Groups and Traders in the Green Lanes / Harringay Ladder area may not be aware of the handsome consultation document detailing the new Green Lanes proposals which has just been published on behalf of the Green Lanes Strategy Group.
This is available to download at:
www.haringey.gov.uk/green_lanes_scheme.
Paper copies have been produced in limited quantity and are available at Stroud Green Library, Tao Sports and Cherie Hair Salon.
Views and comments are invited and welcomed and the closing date for these is 21 June 2013. 'If no major objections are received', works are planned to start in July/August 2013 and will last 9-12 months.
Comments should be emailed to: frontline.consultation@haringey.gov.uk
or posted to: Frontline Consultation, London Borough of Haringey, FREEPOST NAT 20390, PO Box 264, London N22 8BR
This is the one opportunity to have a close look at all the detail and to make constructive comments.
Tags for Forum Posts: glsg, green lanes corridor, green lanes plan, green lanes strategy, harringay green lanes town centre, harringay ladder, outer London und, pocket park, town centre improvements
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by hob on
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This now seems so much more profound since the item you commented on has been deleted. There are probably people arround Harringay even at this moment saying "That DavidJ on HoL is a deep thinker."
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Permalink Reply by David Schmitz on
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My apologies, first of all, for the error contained in my letter about the proposed reversal of the direction of traffic in Hewit Road. It is of course correct that it would be 4 consecutive roads running in the same direction, not 3, as I mistakenly said. If I may, I'd like to put the mistake down to a new baby and sleep deprivation!
Turning now to the merits of the scheme, I would make two initial points. Firstly, the burden experienced by residents of Hewit Road is something of which I was aware for many years before I became a councillor, and I have long hoped to be able to help to address it. Secondly, addressing it must not be achieved at the expense of simply moving the problem to another road. The aim of any scheme must be to ensure a more even distribution of the load, and ideally an overall reduction of the load, rather than an excessive burden elsewhere.
The proposed measure for which the Council's leadership is pushing would not therefore have been my first choice. I would have preferred instead, either to reinstitute the "no right turn" restriction at the bottom of Hewit Road, or alternatively to restrict entry into Hewit Road from Wightman, so as to ensure that only northbound traffic or southbound traffic (it would not matter which) might lawfully turn into it - thereby cutting the amount of through traffic by half.
Having said that, I am for now minded (subject to reading the consultation responses) to support the proposed scheme, because it is experimental (and therefore will be revoked if its effects are undesirable) and also because, by eliminating a very easy way through from Wightman to St. Ann's roads, it may actually reduce the overall incidence of rat-running and benefit Wightman Road into the bargain.
My support for the scheme is, however, subject to three conditions.
First, in order to ensure that it really is an experiment, there must be a sunset clause - it must automatically come to an end after a year, unless the Council makes a deliberate decision, again subject to consultation requirements, to extend it.
Secondly, there must be a traffic count on Hewit, Pemberton and Beresford Roads, before the scheme is implemented and before the end of the current school term, so that necessary data will be available at the time when the renewal of the scheme is being considered.
Thirdly, there must be a commitment for urgent consideration to be given to the reversal of one of the other east/west roads. My own preference is that Warham Road be subject to that reversal because it has a similar problem to that of Hewit, owing to its position opposite the junction of Salisbury Road and Green Lanes, and also because there is a possibility that rat-running may be reduced overall if an easy route from St. Ann's Road to Wightman Road is eliminated.
These thoughts of mine are provisional and subject to the consultation, and of course as an opposition Councillor I do not have the right to make the decision. However, I hope that this contribution is helpful to the discussion.
David Schmitz
Liberal Democrat Councillor for Harringay Ward
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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Hi David, thanks for commenting here. Could you tell us about the process of the decision making on this Hewit switch happens? I'm assuming its the GLSG that will make the decission, is that correct? So its something like:
- people send in comments on Green Lanes Town Centre Improvements Statutory Notification, with submission closing this Friday
- GLSG members review the comments
- GLSG meet, discuss, decideIs it as simple as that or something more?
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Yes thanks David
I appreciate that this is a longer term idea, but can you say more about how the reversal of Warham Rd might work in relation to the traffic coming from Salisbury Rd, which currently cuts straight across Green Lanes to go up Warham?
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While waiting for David to answer as the amateur traffic planner in-residence I'll have a go:
I would guess most traffic currently going from Salisbury to Warham is probably heading for south bound on Wightman, otherwise it could go via Harringay Rd and skip the lights. We could confirm that by going to the Warham/Wightman junction and watching if most traffic turns south or north.
So if Warham is flipped that traffic would turn left out of Salisbury on to Green Lanes go past Pemberton and then turn right onto Mattison.There is a lot of that traffic coming out of Salisbury Rd, thats why it needs lights there, and that section of Green Lanes can get pretty busy and congested already so i think all that extra Salisbury traffic could make quite a mess. There are no lights for the right turn into Pemberton so it could easily get a bit gridlocked as traffic gets stuck trying to make the right turn. If that guess is right Seymour should be ok though
If the guess about the traffic is heading for south bound on Wightman is wrong and its really wanting to north on Wightman then its probably not going to be so bad on Green Lanes as its an easy left turn into Seymour. Not so good for Seymour though of course
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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I live off St Ann's road and I use the Salisbury Rd/Warham Road as my main route from home to go Northbound, and occasionally Southbound, on Wightman Road (if I'm heading South I tend to just turn left onto GL and stay on GL).
I agree forcing all this traffic further along to the end of St Anne's road would cause more congestion on my side of GL. I wouldn't call this a rat run, I would say it helps traffic going from East to West.
In a reverse journey (West to East) I have to turn right at Wrightman Road because I can't turn right at Turnpike Lane. So it's not just a case of traffic going North or South on GL and Wightman Rd we also need to consider local traffic like me traveling East or West.
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More 2 minute surveys!
Counted at the Warham / Wightman junction for a few minutes today. Its really busy! 23 cars in two minutes making it the busiest rung road counted yet by far. It was a pretty even split of turning north or south. Also on the way past counted Seymour and Hewit both pretty quiet, just one car came into Hewit at 8:10am on a weekday morning. I wonder what other evidence people have that Hewit is so disproportionately busy? And Falkland again which had 13, so again Falkland looks like one of the busier roads
There's the lights at the St Anns / Harringay Rd junction i'd forgotten yesterday which explains why its an even split of going north and south out of Warham.
So from that, if Warham was reversed Seymour would become a much bussier street than it is today, Also, the right turn from Seymour into Wightman isn't good because of the curve in Wightman so cars coming out of Seymour can't see well the cars coming down Wightman. An accident waiting to happen?
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Nobody is asking for a gated community, that is something completely different. Ant is asking for a traffic gate at the bottom of Frobisher, I am asking for gates at either end of Wightman. I don't see that this would do anything other than expose traffic traversing the railway out on main roads rather than hiding it in residential streets. Because the bottleneck is actually the railway there would be very little impact on journey times other than that saved by not waiting at traffic lights.
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If I can't turn right into Wightman Road from Hornsey High St then I can't get home (I live just off St Annes Road - opposite side to the gardens).
The next junction into GL at Turnpike Lane is a no right turn. So traffic travelling West to East would be forced to go through the middle of Crouch End (or the little residental sts near stationers park), over Crouch Hill and then left into Endymion Road, - so gating either end of Wightman Road doesn't sound feasible to me.
Sadly because of the railway, the amount of London traffic and the other local restrictions (gardens and Hermatige Rd) traffic needs to come along Wightman and the ladder rungs - in my opinion.
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Good point. But because there would be no traffic coming from Wightman you could extend the period for the lights at both ends of Turnpike Lane and include a phase for turning right.
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Sorry John but currently traffic can't turn right at the end of Wightman Rd so I'm not sure I understand what you mean, there isn't any East bound traffic coming out of Wightman?
Also there isn't any space at the Turnpike Lane junction to make a right turn lane (like the one on Hornsey High St into Wightman) and if Wightman is blocked then the traffic going into the Turnpike Lane junction will be increased, not reduced.
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