Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Haringey staff & consultants paid over £50k
People may be interested in the answer to a Freedom of Information request on WhatDoTheyKnow.com website.
On 11 February 2011, A. Green asked for a list of the positions, grades and salaries of Haringey employees, consultants or agency staff paid over £50,000 in 2008/09/10/11.
On 5 May, after some shilly-shallying and dilly-dallying, Haringey finally supplied most of what A. Green requested.
Apart from information about consultants. Which I hope will be coming along shortly - with a little nudging and nagging from me if needed.
Tags for Forum Posts: F.o.I, Freedom of Information, Haringey staff salaries, WhatDoTheyKnow.com, consultant, haringey chief executive, £50k
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by alex on
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I'd prefer a brain surgeon who went into the NHS because s/he wanted to help people get well and was given the resources, training and support to do that.
I'm using care workers because I think it's the most blatant example of how society (and Haringey Council) has got it's priorities wrong. But you could look at road sweepers and lots of other jobs as well. People take them for granted and don't notice them until they're gone or something goes wrong.
But look at the uproar on HoL over litter on the streets. People don't want to live in a messy environment, they expect someone to be cleaning up, yet those cleaners aren't paid a decent wage. They aren't lucky enough to have the option to leave the country - not that anyone should have to anyway. Why shouldn't any job which needs doing be paid a decent wage? Rather than having low paid workers 'work all hours' with more than one job just to make ends meet.
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People talking to and thanking street cleaners may improve their morale but it doesn't feed their families or keep a roof over their heads. Decent wages would transform many people's lives, giving them more secure housing and much more time to spend with their families.
At the moment the reverse is happening, and low paid frontline staff are losing their jobs to cut the Council's costs (going back here to care workers rather than street cleaners), with not much evidence of better paid staff 'sharing the pain'.
'Required reading' is no substitute for finding out about people's real life situations.
How do you balance years of hard work cleaning, doing several jobs to make ends meet, so sacrificing time with your family, with the pleasure of going to university, maybe working hard but also having a good social life while you're there and having a well paid position afterwards, with better health and longer life expectancy.
Ask yourself - who has really got the rough end of the deal?
I'm not trying to make people feel bad for having an enjoyable life, but when people want to justify large salaries by saying they've worked hard, that implies other people haven't, or other people don't deserve it. Say that to the face of a care worker at the end of their shift dressing, cleaning and caring for one of your elderly relatives. Say that to the face of a street sweeper after they've finished walking up and down the ladder all day making it clean for you.
Or say that as a society it's time we looked to reversing the income gap between rich and poor. And that means not making frontline workers redundant when there are people earning more than double who could 'share the pain'.
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Permalink Reply by Melvyn on
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I agree Alex. Manual jobs for the whole of one's life also requires sacrifice, working for a wage is sacrifice; it's surprising to me that so many people feel it's okay for the councils to pay so much money at the top end. They're just clerks after all. Just a pack of cards said Alice. You get what you deserve in the end.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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As you imply, Alex, the basic question is about the priorities we as a society adopt. There are political choices and other western European countries do not have the same extremes of inequality as in Britain.
One fascinating aspect about fetishisation of "the market" is that the current labour market for low-paid (or no-paid) workers is assumed to mean even lower pay, part-time working, "interning", or volunteering. While the highest-paid staff are apparently exempt from the iron laws of the market and their salaries are immutably fixed.
Any doubts or wobbles about this basic principle of nature are swiftly corrected by a chief officers' trade union club called Solace.
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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I suspect that A. Green in making her/his original FOI request was not suggesting that every Haringey salary be capped at £50K - unless, of course, A. stands for alex ? Seems to me a potentially valuable discussion has been hijacked ad extrema.
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Perhaps, OAE, one thread in the discussion has been followed — to the neglect of many others. However, it is an important thread.
But the points you made here were very helpful, and I would be interested to read other people's responses to them.
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So, in thirty minutes as you claim (or if this is a bad day, over the coming week) could you help us all by finding a link or links to this readily available information on the before and after comparison? Preferably in a way which is understandable by residents - and even councillors - who'd like some assurance that the cuts are slimming down Haringey's management as well as its bottom-level staff?
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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So to simplify your simplification:
- A few privileged insiders know. Or they should know. But if they don't know then they ought to know.
- But outsiders don't have access to this knowledge. So they don't know. But they can ask. But if they ask they may or may not get timely, complete or even accurate information. They won't know.
_____________________________________
From the Poetry of Donald Rumsfeld
The Unknown
"As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know."—Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing
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"There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza."
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Not sure if it's me or Billy you're accusing of hijacking, but I'm just expressing an opinion, same as those who think £50k is not much. I haven't actually got fixed views on what salary is 'too much', so I'm interested to hear other people's views. But I do have an growing sense of disquiet at the increasing income gap and the fact that so many vital frontline workers are losing their jobs.
Disquiet for their sakes for the effect it will have on their lives, and disquiet for our sakes for the effect it will have on our communities. The unfortunate reality is that the more people get paid over £50k (and more importantly the more of our taxes that get given to bail out banks etc), the fewer frontline staff will keep their jobs.
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It is a truth universally acknowledged, Alex, that a senior manager in possession of an interesting and challenging job, excellent prospects, and a high salary must be in want of a motivational pay rise. Whereas "operatives", "manuals" and other staff on lower grades respond far better to pay cuts.
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Alex, on reflection I think 'hijacking' was a bit strong but then so is 'accusing'. Basically I'm with you in your main argument though I'm sure what we might call caring or humane motivation isn't a monopoly of lower paid caring professions but can exist within career and pay structures designed to bring workers/professionals well beyond £50Kpa whether incrementally, via a series of thresholds or by earned bonuses. Shouldn't local authorities (or their agents, e.g. Veolia) be prevailed upon to apply similar incremental steps, thresholds, even bonuses to their workers who start below £15K ? No local authority should be allowed to operate without a Bob or Roberta Crowe on a reasonable wage in every department.
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