Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Haringey looter pics issued by Met
Tags for Forum Posts: london troubles
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Stephen, if I my comment was unclear, let me you explain that I'm asking questions, not making assertions.
Nor - I hope - am I jumping to conclusions. I don't see the problems of Paris as equivalent to London. But nor do I assume there's nothing at all to learn from what happens there or in other European cities.
And I don't understand what you mean by this being "an easy cop out for you" [politicians]. Zena and I are not just Haringey councillors. We are Tottenham residents who live two minutes walk from the High Road. The meeting Zena mentioned was with our neighbours.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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@Alan The burning of cars (usually top of the range) has been used by anarchist groups for at least the last six- seven years to show their displeasure at the trend towards gentrification, as well as their removal from long established 'squats' in Boroughs like Friedrichshain-Kreuzberg, Prenzlauer Berg, Pankow and Mitte.. What has recently happened (four weeks before the Berlin Senate (State) & Council elections) is that these attacks have now spread to Charlottenburg & Spandau (Generally considered to be 'conservative' Boroughs, but where the CDU has stagnated to around 20% of the vote with the Liberals at 4% (under the 5% hurdle) and have no chance of forming the next Senate.
It is very easy to set a vehicle alight by leaving a couple barbeque 'Brandbeschleuniger' (fire accelerant?) under it.. and is very hard to police.. There might be political implications behind these latest attacks (hot headed young party activists perhaps?) - trying to embarrass the governing coalition, but this time not from the left.. we'll have to see..
There are photos from Stefan Rasch, Berlin's equivalent of Paul Wood: http://www.flickr.com/people/berliner-feuerwehr/ or here in set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/berliner-feuerwehr/sets/72157627385729...
Regarding the 'cop out' - I detect a definite move by politicians to put a lid on the whole matter, push all the blame for the situation on to the rioters on get back to business as usual as soon as possible..
As neighbours as well as councillors weren't you aware of the grievances or perhaps tensions within the local population.. or is this group impossible to reach..?
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Permalink Reply by Con on
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Sorry Hugh
I wont be participating in Cameron’s ‘Shop a Hoodie”. Wasn’t too long ago he was asking us to “hug a hoodie!”. Well whatever the way the wind blows….
Its obvious the Tories are pandering to another type of mob. The swift so-called justice and harsh sentencing is arbitrary and just a PR stunt to reclaim control. The rioting and looting is over so I don’t think they need to make examples of those who get caught.
When are they going to make an example of the bankers? Or even those who misled us to the facts that started the riots.
Dave should call off the Lynch Mob and let the judiciary take care of these people in a reasoned fashion.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I'm not clear how identifying people is acting like lynch mob though, Con. Surely it's the bit that comes next (the justice they receive) that marks out what type of society we are. If they're to be dealt with in a 'reasoned fashion', they still have to be identified don't they?
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The point is Hugh they not are being dealt with in a reasoned fashion. One man got six months for stealing water. What next? Someone being transported for stealing bread? This is a political exercise to show retribution and is not justified. Only optics to demonstrate a strong government in charge but we all know they are not strong. They won't stand up to the bankers who believe they are entitled to big bonuses but won't take responsibility for their collective actions.
Yes these people should be responsible for their actions but this response is over the top. Naming and shaming kids will not fix this.
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Ok. I'm not particularly taking issue with you on any of that, but what is your suggested course of action?
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Take down the mug shots Hugh until we are assured by the government that those facing court will be dealt with like any other suspected offender.
A discussion on restorative justice might be a good alternative for the bandwidth.
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I've just seen this. I'd be very much with Con, and indeed with Michelle, on this. I cannot see that sharing this aspect of Withern's work is a role for a community website, or even for a Neighbourhood Watch. Next time will we have calls for preventative internment without trial, with roles for all of us to finger suspicious appearance or activity? It's not a million miles from excessive deterrent sentencing to detention/internment without bothering magistrates with all-night sittings.
There are probably other discussions and initiatives a community should be giving time to at this stage: such as the positive offer made by Andrew of Budgens (noted briefly here last week) for getting people who matter together to intervene in underlying causes for some of the problems.
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I do understand your concerns, Eddie, Con & Michelle. To a great extent I share them.
Let me make it clear that I'm not in favour of the excessive sentences that are being handed down and I'm not in favour of a mob rule culture. I would hope that much is obvious from the last few years. (I'm not quite sure whether to take the internment without trial comment at all seriously, but for the sake of completeness, of course I'm not in favour of that, nor is my posting a few police photos likely to set me on the path to "Class 'A'" views or postings.)
But, what I'm not yet clear on is what course of action you ARE advocating. Whilst I stand ready to be convinced otherwise, as things stand I'm working on the assumption that those who have broken the law should be arrested and dealt with in accordance with the law. Now, if that law is being bent out of shape for political puposes, I would certainly support addressing that. What I'm not convinced of is that the solution is not to arrest the offenders.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I missed this at the time Hugh but I'm with Michelle, Con and Eddie. We've already named a local pedophile, now we're doing wanted posters for the Police - who have their own web presence and know how I assume.
You gave these far too much credence by posting them here.
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So, in the spirit of hope, same question again. What course of action DO you advocate?
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You mean you can't tell that I was suggesting NOT posting these for the Met? That my suggested course of action was to do "nothing" with them?
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