Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay (Green lanes Area) Transport Study
A letter just dropped through y door asking for feedback. Here is mine:
"I hope the council considers the permanent closure of Wightman Road. Gradually commuters and long-distance drivers are realising they need to either use alternative main roads, or switch to public transport or cycling. The study shows that residents overwhelmingly do not own a car (61%), and prefer public transport, walking or cycling for their commute (82%)."
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 1vut8bf3om5m9 on
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I am tempted to start a new discussion but thought I'd try the existing one first.
I have reviewed the documents on the Haringey site in the section the "Green Lanes Area Transport Study". A number of meetings and documents have been added relatively recently. I am new to the Ladder and was surprised to learn that this is the only council that seems to be happy to subject its 100% residential streets to through traffic.
I have been going over the various discussions that some of you know councillors, MPs etc. Rather than revisit the lengthy discussion of what is the best place to close this or open that, my question is - is there going to be anything that comes out of this study? Action? Recommendation? Is that the intention--or is it just a study for the council to look at, put the hand on the chin and say "hmmm"?
I note that someone said that the unusual traffic policy of willingly making the Ladder through roads for traffic from the Lea Valley on the part of the council has been fought for years with no joy. Should residents be therefore skeptical as to the outcome of this study or does someone have inside info that the council intends to take action in light of it?
Here is the link to the web page with the documents:
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/transport/green-lanes-area-transport-study
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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The study was set up with the best of intentions by Councillor Stuart Macnamara when he was the 'cabinet' member for the environment. This widely well regarded councillor stepped down after less than a year in post.
The new incumbent of the role has not yet perhaps had the opportunity to show that she is as committed to the study and generating real change from it.
There's a 'steering committee' as part of the study process. Residents are included in the group, but in the six months since the study started, the group has only met twice. The next meeting is early November. You can read all about it and everything else related to this issue by using the first tag under the original post above.
As to whether any change will come as a result of the study, all I can say is that I hope so. That was certainly the intention at its inception.
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Thank you for the summary Hugh. I appreciate that this all is answered elsewhere but I have had a hard time of getting to the policy (or lack thereof) even with all the various shades of this topic and extensive discussion.
Part of what led me to post here was reading comments from people in the council publications that were well intended and in good faith but not necessarily persuasive. I was wondering if it was possible to be on that committee or at least speak when they meet. My sense from the council page is that it is formed.
If there is access to anyone on the committee or on the panel itself I would like to participate / contribute if possible.
Or even if thoughts and considerations could be put here and if appropriate, put before the committee/council, that would be great.
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I see that you're a Ladder resident. The best way to get involved in the study is via the LCSP. They have a member of the 'committee' and I sit on it also. The LCSP has a sub-group dealing with the study. The main LCSP meets monthly and, as it happens, the next meeting is tonight at 7:00 in the little hall just to the right of the church at the bottom of Allison. You'll be very welcome to attend, I'm sure. I can't be there this month, but hope to see you another time.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I wasn't able to go yesterday as I had to work late. The first thing I need to understand is whether, and if so, why this council has a policy to prefer through traffic over its paying residents. I will get in touch with them.
At the end of the day, I get that reasonable minds can differ as to whether, e.g., there should be parking on Green Lanes. One side - better traffic flow; other side - helps the businesses which brings in tax revenue and makes the area more commercially viable.
Versus something akin to the council saying "hey, sure no problem take your loud and deep house shaking vibration making diesel engined panel van up residential streets (as opposed to a normal quieter car) so that you can cut across to the West Gate of Finsbury Park, rather than do anything for the residents who will be subject to your uphill engine strain noise and vibrations, and the slamming sound clanging tools and machinery as you go over the humps too fast. Heck, we'll even ensure this happens by pointing you straight up Warham Road from Salibury Road and we hope that people from all over the Lea Valley use this route. Do try to watch out for the children crossing that road on their way to the South Harringay Primary School."
I didn't see that coming at all before I bought in. I don't regret my choice as it is the perfect house in the perfect place. But such a policy as above is novel.
And it also goes against the one guy on here who talks about how car usage will eventually go to near zero. This isn't about cars, this is about tradesmen with heavy and loud vehicles critical for them to perform their services and not an Audi A3. There will always be vehicles like this.
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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Knavel, you may also like to have a look at the Living Wightman website. The more residents we can get involved the more pressure Haringey Council will be under to do something about it.
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Knavel, of course it's not simple. All sorts of issues come into play including statutory ones, wishes of various residents groups, trader wishes, neighbourhood traffic management, borough traffic management, TfL policies etc. You can then add to that a healthy dose of politics. Balancing all the non-political considerations is difficult enough. Once the political overlay comes in to play, the difficulty in reaching a decision and taking action seems immense.
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What are the main political overlays Hugh, if these can be easily summarised?
@Karen - thank you for the suggestion. I have had a look previously at the site. I empathise with the aim of LW and I would be an incidental beneficiary if their objective was achieved (the bridge closure time made that pretty clear to me).
But I also view their situation as different in as much as there was no degree of blind siding about what one gets into moving into that road. I saw immediately that it was a main thoroughfare and I expect fairly assumed this was priced into the equation, particularly on the west side where there is heavy traffic on one side and trains on the other. For Wightman to achieve its objective has a commercial component as the property values would immediately increase by, I reckon, what-1/3? I paid the premium to avoid the traffic flow that was obvious to me the first second I saw Wightman road, but i am getting a disproportionate chunk of it anyway (5x versus the street next to me). But if you think ladder people can help somehow, I am happy to write what I can (as written advocacy is my career, but the problem of course is that what any judge would be moved by, one can't tell with a bureaucrat).
I can live with being a thoroughfare but it would be nice if it were at least distributed more proportionately on the ladder streets.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I think I'm the guy who thinks that cars will be replaced very soon by magic Ubers at 5% of the current volume. I have to hold my hands up and say that apart from calling Lausanne Rd "The Tradesman's Entrance to Crouch End" and commercial traffic racing over a speedhump being my main bugbear, you have a point. The traffic is a problem when it is jammed or racing if you are outside. If you're inside quietly reading a book and some large van or lorry goes screaming over the speedhump outside your house you will definitely hear and feel it.
The council are up against a very vociferous lobby in Crouch End (see the Crouch End FB group) who are asserting their right to have their own potential through roads closed off but use ours with impunity. The Ladder is the last great residential rat run in North London, it will take a Herculean political effort to close it.
Everyone says that they could live with the traffic if only it was more fairly distributed. The only way to fairly distribute traffic across the ladder is to close off Wightman Rd as was recently done. Fiddling about such as the no-right-turn on Hewitt just moves it from one road to another.
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You know what FPR, go jump. When I first bought that house in 2001 it was two way and there was no roadhump. Unfortunately the Solicitor's "search" did not turn up that there was currently a consultation going to make the ladder roads one way.
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That's glib FPR. The reason that a good number of people are so frustrated with the traffic is that they moved in to a relatively traffic free road only to have it changed about them. Those people see decreasing traffic levels in London, neighbouring areas with very little traffic and a four or tenfold increase in traffic on their road.
The trick to having a peaceful life for those people is in fact a crystal ball.
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The council are up against a very vociferous lobby in Crouch End (see the Crouch End FB group) who are asserting their right to have their own potential through roads closed off but use ours with impunity.
There is an "every man for himself" core to all of this. Your post reminded me that Croutch End is also part of Haringey no? It looks like a richer area so they would presumably have more influence.
I am appreciative that you didn't take my reference to your views as a criticism but more that even if what you predict coming to pass, it won't address the real issue. I know this as I was a gigging muso once, and while I never even think about a car living in London, I did do a gig for the first time and just hauling basic acoustic show stuff on bus 341 made me think "never again, gotta have a car for this".
You have also focused on the real point I think with the Lausanne Road reference. I assume that that is up the street as I don't know that particular ladder road.I only say fairer distro because I don't want to impose on my neighbours for my sake. But to another neighborhood who doesn't care about any of us, well fine. I looked at Crouch End but it was so boring dead on the hill I chose the ladder. Again, happy to endure bustle to be able to walk 100 yards to those restaurants rather than a half mile up on snooze hill. Maybe I should join Living Wightman then as the effect will be to turn Crouch End into Crotch End, ha ha.
When I first bought that house in 2001 it was two way and there was no roadhump.
I bought mine off of a friend who mentioned the 2-way system. So that was better?
The reason that a good number of people are so frustrated with the traffic is that they moved in to a relatively traffic free road only to have it changed about them.
On occasion I produce investment offering docs and these are called "risk factors". My current employer paid very dearly having hired a desk with amazing results on a certain system only to have the Financial Conduct Authority publish its disapproval of the system shortly after that and the salary commitments were eye watering for a desk that suddenly had basically no value. It happens.
At the end of the day I bought the perfect house. The elements of what makes it that way to me will never change.the added benefit never seems to be truly priced in.
There is definitely something to that. So many of the homes that I had the chance to look at (there is more on the market now than when I bought earlier in the year) had the most horrific modernisations and they all ask/~get the same price as mine which has a lot of time capsule aspects. Look, I ride my bicycle through Finsbury Park and the whole Arsenal area bit every day. It's much quieter but it doesn't have Green Lanes. I would be bored to tears there. My friends turn up from America (where I am from) and Italy (where I lived for many years) and think it's the coolest place on earth where I live when we go to Hala and the Salisbury. If i wanted dead quiet I could move back to the Mojave Desert. I am more about equitable distribution, not NIMBY but PIMBY (proportional in my backyard). Ha ha.
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