Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Gardens residents...
Too late to mail the cards but you can give your opinion via this email Frontline.consultation@haringey.gov.uk
Option 1: retain the bollards but apply a £15/annum charge to pass holders.
Option 2: close the intersection to all motorised vehicles.
As some have suggested, this is an opportunity to shut this access once and for all. Take it.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Nick on
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I don't see any reason to remove the access entirely. Only those with a card, i.e. those who actually want access, will have to pay, and I'd gladly do so as the fee is minimal.
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I think the current delays in repairs to the bollards are a result of the council's concerns over costs, and would imagine that with the future income received from card holders this would change.
Even if there are non-residents holding cards, this number is very unlikely to be significant relative to the number of cars travelling between St Anns Road and Green Lanes. If not, and this is considered a serious problem, the council could expire old cards and reissue new ones every year, perhaps when applying for a residents permit.
To use the gardens as a rat run you'd have to know that the barrier is open - this is impossible from the Green Lanes side and difficult from St Anns, as it's not visible until you're right next to it.
Also, the councils proposal to install benches in the closed off space is daft and demonstrates that they are out of touch with the goings on in the area. As well as the betting shop, it is an zone of convergence for local drunks and crackheads.
Closing the access completely would mean those travelling home via St Anns road would need to make a pointless diversion via Salisbury Road, which is already a bottleneck at peak times.
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I don't think the residents on Salisbury road would benefit from the closure of the intersection. Forcing people (who are just trying to get home) to divert just creates more traffic and pollution.
If the main concern is non-functioning bollards, perhaps a more reliable / sturdy barrier is called for. Closing off the intersection to prevent vandalism is akin to fixing a watch with a hammer.
Can we agree that if the bollard system worked as intended (always operational, with only residents able to pass), this is a better solution than no access at all?
Finally, I'm not against the current wave of 'street improvements' in general, but care has to be taken with the siting. Installing sitting areas on a high street is quite different to putting a public bench outside someones house.
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Permalink Reply by Pete Thorniley on
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Stan, I agree with you.
I'd also add that should it turn out (and I expect it likely will) that very few residents pay the £15 per annum charge to use a junction which is of little benefit to most, and the bollards therefore become/remain a strain on the general council budget, the chances that the junction will be re-opened to traffic will greatly increase. Unless the opportunity is taken to remodel the junction now, there will be no funding to do so if/when "Option 1" proves to have been wishful thinking.
If you are a Gardens resident, it really is in your interest to send your feedback to Frontline.consultation@haringey.gov.uk as you suggest.
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Only card holders will need to pay the proposed charge, and every card holder benefits from the existence of the bollards, by definition (why else would they have requested a card?).
I also think only card holders should be involved in the consultation, as residents without cards (or cars) have no incentive to see the junction open at all, so this will unfairly skew the poll results. I have made this point to Haringey.
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Perhaps they requested a card because it was free and they thought they might occasionally use it? Perhaps they wouldn't bother though if it cost £15? Would the remaining users be willing to spend £30, £50, £100 to make up the shortfall? The problem is you can get into a difficult trap where the fewer that pay for it, the higher the charge, which means fewer still are willing to pay etc.
I'm clearly speculating and you may well be right, but I do think it's a risk.
I don't think you can say only car/card users should be allowed to comment. It affects everyone.
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Permalink Reply by Alex on
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Close the access and the betting shop gets a complimentary beer garden. Sure they'll love that.
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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I hadn't seen this consultation so from a quick google here it is. That also found a couple of other interesting links about the bollards, a 2011 HoL discussion about the bollards being broken again, and the consultation report from 2000 when the bollards were being proposed.
Useful comment from Nilgun in this recent consultation saying - "The council fully supports residents’ desire to ensure there is no through traffic in the Gardens area." - hopefully the council will be equally supportive of the northern Ladder proposal
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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No they won't, that's not Nilgun's constituency. I like Stan's comment about the cost 'Bear in mind we are only talking about a few thousand pounds'. Brilliant.
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So cheap! We should ask for Frobisher bollards not a Frobisher gate :)
I think the amount getting spent on maintenance might only be showing part of the picture. The bollards appear to get broken a lot, most times i go past they they're down, they're down presently aren't they(?) and have been for ages, this picture from Google streetview in July 2012 shows them down, that long 2011 HoL thread was about how they're down so much people had learnt they could use the area for rat runs again. So although the council is only spending a few thousand a year on them they don't actually always fix them or do it quickly, and it would likely take significantly more than a few thousand if they were always fixed promptly and kept up and running all year.
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I don't disagree that this is cheap for what you get Stan... but I guess the ladder would like it too. Many more citizens than in the gardens would benefit.
If we went for the fully user pays model on the ladder it could even generate income for the parking enforcement account. I would pay £100 a year to have access to a rising bollard on Wightman Rd and no more through traffic.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Hulbert on
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Yeah lets put Bollards everywhere! Bloody through traffic. All those bloody people going places. Damn nuisance!
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