Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Free Palestine Demo Yesterday on Thames South Bank, No violence.
Relatives visited us over the weekend. We decided to take a bus down to Waterloo. Getting off on Waterloo Bridge we walked down steps planning to stroll along the South Bank . Near the bottom was a group of some pro-Palestine demonstrators. I sat down close to them. They chanted a slogan and were entirely peaceful and well behaved. They didn't harangue or abuse me or anyone else there. They weren't scary or threatening.
I'm not a member of the group so I had no say in what they did or chanted. Personally I would have preferred some harsh criticism of genocide, especially killing children.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Oli Brown
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You are peddling nonsense.
Genocide - has Israel committed genocide? Genocide is the systematic attempt to eradicate a particular population typically based on ethnicity, religion etc. The Arabs living in what is being called Palestine are no different in terms of ethnicity or religion to those living in Israel (as Israeli citizens) or in Jordan, Egypt or other surrounding countries. They are not distinct. And, Israel has not targeted them either. On the other hand, Hamas launched a murderous pogrom murdering, mutilating and raping Israeli citizens solely because they are Israeli and solely because most of them were Jewish. THAT is genocide.
Murder - this means deliberate killing. Nobody disputes that Arab children in Gaza have been killed in the war. It is a war and that happens unfortunately. However, the Israelis haven't deliberately killed children. On the other hand, Hamas deliberately killed children in their murderous rampage of October 7.
Ethnic cleansing - Israeli is a multicultural society with many Arab citizens. If it was into ethnic cleansing then would they not have started in their own backyard? A patently false allegation!. Again, on the other hand, the stated aim of Hamas, their colleagues in Hezbollah and their paymasters in Tehran is the obliteration of the Israeli state, the only predominantly Jewish state in the world. That sounds like ethnic cleansing to me.
Are the actions of Israel worse than those of Iran - of course not. Israel is a multicultural and democratic country where the rights of women and minority groups like homosexuals are protected and religious diversity is welcomed. On the other hand, the Iranian regime systematically oppresses women, murders homosexuals and political opponents and deliberately represses religious minorities (eg. Christians, Bahai, Zaroastrians).
But getting back to the sticker... I like them! I always remove the other ones presumably stuck up around the area by mostly ignorant but often anti-semitic nutters.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton
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Well. well. Oli finally answers something.
If other HoL members are curious I suggest typing something like: "Israel frequently false allegations" into a search box on your computer . That seems to me a fair and even pro-Israel question. I tried with different search engines. It produced a balanced, on-the-one-hand-AND-on-the-other answer. For me. It is ideally what an intelligent open-minded person needs.
Otherwise on the major issue I look forward to the publication of the new book by Professor Omer Bartov. "Israel; What Went Wrong". Which may challenge my views. It may even change other's views.
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Hi Oli,
I was wondering where you got your definition of Genocide (above). Because as you may have guessed I've tried to keep abreast of the various public discussions on this topic. As Mike observed I am lucky in having time to read. And also have funds for ebooks which are cheaper. I assume you are living in Haringey and as you might have seen - we have a a pretty good library service in this borough.
I make no claim at all to be a scholar. But the definition of genocide you offer doesn't entirely tally with what I've read.
So I'd be grateful if you could please let me have the name and author of the book you consulted. which provided your definition. (And which sppears to challenge the authors I looked at.)Thanks
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Permalink Reply by Mike Capozzola
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Alan. You clearly have time on your hands AND care passionately. Why aren't you in Gaza helping out?
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Mike that last comment is plain silly. Gaza has been turned to rubble.
Tony Blair and Donald Trump are "helping out" what could I possibly offer that these giants can't? Meanwhile The State of Genocide is still preventing journalists getting in.Mike please, please try reading some books instead of photographing those stickers apparently littering up London. Or you can watch videos with respected historians and journalists. In some ways its easier now to find out stuff for free. And. y'know what? Tracking down truth is actually fun. You can escape from the big comfort blanket of lies fed to you. And get to make your own mind up.
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Mike, another suggestion. Consider please that the stickers you are proud of are really hate messages and poison spreaders. Nasty, divisive, and intended to generate division, hatred, suspicion, and to damage trust across our U.K. communities. Which depend and also benefit from the wonderfully rich positive mixture of cultures across our group of islands. Whose history is a lesson in what can emerge when religious passions and antagonisms subside and fade.
By the way, the stickers don't "pop-up". If they are stickers they are stuck by a person. Somebody prints them. Someone puts up the cash. If you know who, then please ask them to stop.
"Resistance" you claim. Resistance to what? To clean walls? Or maybe resistance to polite face-to-face reasoned respectful debate?Given that many people - including me - are now immensely more positive towards the Palestinians, I can see how the hate filled stickers may encourage antisemitism. though a more accurate description may be anti-Israelism.
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Alan:
Enough of this nonsense. Your self-righteousness is tiresome.
Let's not bore anyone else. I'm easy to find. You'll see me in Crouch End 2-3x/ day.
I’ve been to Israel four times and I was headed there for a fifth time on October 8th.
BUT that plan was derailed when Hamas launched their brutal and cowardly attack against innocent concertgoers and farmers, prompting Israel’s robust response to this declaration of war
Gaza was always a dirty dangerous place. They could use your help rebuilding.
Put your energy into that not the endless typing.
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