Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Finsbury Park Strategy Group to be established
Chair of Scrutiny Cllr Gideon Bull demanded that officers get the ball rolling on this by the end of the month.
I will post further updates when more information is available.
Emine Ibrahim
Labour Party Candidate (Harringay Ward)
Tags for Forum Posts: finsbury park, finsbury park events, finsbury park stakeholder group
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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Re disingenuous claims -
How about " Finsbury Park Strategy Group to be established " ?
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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John, the word 'disingenuous' came up several times during the meeting, mainly used by members of the public to describe the council's description of their proposals.
For a while, I was pleased and impressed that the Chair of Scrutiny not only repeated this word, but used it explicitly as a criticism of officer conduct. Sadly, this show of chastisement was short-lived.
The Chair's wonderful flourishes could best be described as playing to the gallery, in order to make residents imagine he was on their side. I was taken in by the high-flown rhetoric and I applauded. I later felt tricked.It was all for show, as the voting and decision of Scrutiny proves i.e. the Labour-controlled Scrutiny committee voted not to send the concerts policy back to their cabinet for a re-think (but we would still get a Strategy Group by the end of the month).
The performance was yet more disingenuity.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Yep. Complete Bull. Aptronym or aptonym.
Interestingly, before the 2010 elections when your party thought it might win a majority on the Council, we were told that they'd promised Labour the chair of Scrutiny and had suggested we select Cllr Gideon Bull.
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Disingenuous: lacking in candour or frankness, insincere, morally fraudulent. (Said of persons and their actions.) — Oxford English Dictionary.
John, before I was elected to the Council and for maybe two years afterwards, when "senior councillors" said that something would happen or be set up "within a month", I too believed that they meant it. Or at least I started with the assumption that I was dealing with frank, sincere, morally upright people who meant what they said.
Sometimes they did. Even now they sometimes do. Although In most cases I'd now tend to start with the opposite presumption and be delighted when I was proved wrong.
However, let's cut to the chase. The point isn't whether such a "Strategy Group" is quickly established. But its terms of reference, powers, membership, method of working and the timescale. Having say, two strong trusted co-chairs might help. (One could be drawn from local residents.) Although not if their efforts were sabotaged by people seeking party or individual advantage.
I suggest that one of the Groups's first tasks would be to establish "Ground Rules". For example, I'd like to see such a group meeting in public and publishing its papers online. And also establishing the constraints. For instance, is the Kober/Goldberg regime really looking for 'win-win', a way to balance the interests of different Finsbury Park users? Is the income really going to be ring-fenced for the park? Neither are impossible. Or is the intention to treat the park as a cash cow? Will the views and past experience of various local groups be listened to? Again, that can happen.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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However, let's cut to the chase. The point isn't whether such a "Strategy Group" is quickly established. But its terms of reference, powers, membership, method of working and the timescale.
Alan, I partly agree, but I don't think either of the criteria you've mentioned have been met. Sorry to bring this up again. However, today is 1st of May, Labour Day, a good day to reflect on the council's policy and conduct.
One of the galling aspects of this matter is that the Finsbury Park "Strategy" group has been billed as the "way forward to ensure that residents have a voice on the future of events in our park".
The council sometimes refers to us as "customers" (if this were true, does that not make them sales assistants?). Does this "way forward to ensure ...", not demonstrate cynicism and insincerity?
Us customers residents already had an interest and a voice.- Residents exercised it in January
- They spoke up loud, clear and long
- During the three-hour Scrutiny meeting
- Residents did so, in the belief that their voices might be heard by the Majority-Group dominated Committee
- The Committee disregarded their voices
- It refused to change the Cabinet Concerts policy, i.e. the future of events in our park.
- The stakeholder sop-group is a travesty and an insult to residents
If the Council had been sincere about engaging with local residents, they would have set up a Strategy group before the cabinet decision to part-privatise our park—that approved the policy for huge concerts and that will shape the character of our park for some time to come.
Disclosure:
am a prospective councillor candidate
Highgate Ward | Liberal Democrat Party
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Permalink Reply by Cllr Emina Ibrahim on
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Hi All
I can provide some clarity and answers to the questions Hugh asked. The current plans are that the group will meet on a number of occasions throughout the year to contribute to the event planning process and provide feedback during debriefs for events. I am told the new group will be chaired by the Cabinet member.
I have also been informed that the existing group are meeting next week to discuss the terms of reference and wider membership of the new group.
Emine Ibrahim - Labour Party Candidate (Harringay Ward)
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HAS anyone heard any facts or anything official about the establishment of the group?
I can't find anything on the 'net (apart from HOL), but I may have missed something.
It was to have been set up by the end of January; another month has gone by ...
Disclosure:
am a prospective councillor candidate
Highgate Ward | Liberal Democrat Party
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A fair question, Clive. Have you recently written to Cllr John Bevan the "cabinet" councillor and asked him?
In recent years John Bevan he has gone up a bit in my estimation as he does actually try to do the right things. And in my own experience he doesn't knowingly mislead people.
Although like all of us it's possible that he has the wool pulled over his eyes by people who tell him lies or highly selective parts of the truth.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Alan I'm going to have respectfully to disagree with you about the Cabinet Member for Parks. I do not believe, as you do, that he actually tries to do the right thing.
I was present for the Scrutiny Meeting and heard this gentleman speak of our park, not as a source of quiet enjoyment for all, but solely as a means of generating money.
Though he did not spell it out, it was clear that he intends Finsbury Park to become a cash cow: to maintain FP and all the other parks (that it may do already) but to sweat the asset for the general consolidated fund.
He said of parks in general [they] "have never paid their way".
The Chair of Scrutiny's demand to establish a strategy group, was made to the Cabinet Member (rather than to officers as asserted at the top of this thread). The response from the Cabinet Member was "if that's what you want, that's what you will have".
In print, it sounds dynamic and assertive. Anyone who actually attended, will remember just how unenthusiastically these words were uttered. Your neighbour Martin Ball addressed the Scrutiny meeting brilliantly. I think he would confirm my account.
Even the Chair of Scrutiny recognized that officers had been disingenuous; but the Parks Member did not acknowledge that his officers had been disingenuous (about the extent of increase in the biggest concerts).
I have not and will not send a private email to the Cabinet Member on this subject for two reasons:
- Unfortunately, I have no confidence in him as a defender of our park. I believe this view may be shared by the members of the public who attended the scrutiny meeting.
- If a Finsbury Park Strategy Group is to be established, then it should be announced to all the public in a formal way.
Disclosure:
am a prospective councillor candidate
Highgate Ward | Liberal Democrat Party
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Hi Clive
Correct me if i am wrong but are you not a member of Friends of Finsbury Park? If so I believe you were informed of the meeting that was due to take place on 12th Feb in January. Even if you were not the two Lib Dem Councillors certainly were as i have seen the email and you were all cc'd in. This is the information i posted when you and Hugh asked me why i had not posted a response. I did not have the information so I requested but was rather surprised to note that you already had this prior to me receiving but continued to claim otherwise on here.
Please do not mislead this discussion group. However apologies If you are not a member of Friends of Finsbury Park or were not passed the information by the Liberal Democrat but please do not use this forum to create the impression that information is being withheld from you by the cabinet member as I know for a fact it is not.
Emine Ibrahim
The Labour Party Candidate (Harringay Ward)
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Hello Clive
Can I ask you to confirm if you are a member of Friends of Finsbury Park? As it seems that a pattern is emerging of you posting a day or two after notice goes out of the next meeting. I presume as Friends of Finsbury Park are invitees they decide who represents them at the meeting. Can you therefore confirm your membership and answer the questions I asked in my last posting.
Emine
Labour Party Candidate (Harringay Ward)
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Permalink Reply by Cathy on
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I have been following the debate on this page. I too was at the meeting back in December in which John Bevan was assigned the chairmanship of a committee to look after the interests of this park. As a local person with an interest in Finsbury Park, a place where I walk my dog and watch the ducks, i have been appalled by sniping on this page. The council is not concerned with the park, it has no interest in the people who live near it, and has decided therefore to use Finsbury Park as a means by which to raise revenue for other parks in Haringey. That is fact. At the meeting back in December arguments were put very cogently and coherently to council leaders, who ignored them, completely. This council has no interest in listening to the people of Finsbury Park.
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