Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

So I can hear many people being pleased about this, but I can promise you fining people for jumping red lights doesnt work

its the 2nd time I have been fined and this time it cost me £50 on a very rainy monday by a very grumpy young PC- not happy- all cars staitonary- and no pedestrians

But will it stop me ( or other serial red light jumpers like me)- well its a BIG FAT NO-

Its just now I will have to make sure there are no police cars in the vicinity- So infact instead of making the roads safer, instead of me previously doing a thorough check of the road of any cars, pedestrians, other cyclists., I now have to check for police which means Im possibly less than 100% focused on everything else

So to put this in context

I am a middle age woman who has been cycling  in london on a daily basis for the last 30years. I have been knocked off quite a few times( absolutely none of them my fault)

 2 of my accidents in my early years of cycling where  when i was leaving traffic lights- so I learnt like many other cyclists, traffic lights are dangerous places to stop- So provided its totally clear, get on your way. The more cyclists on the road, the worst junctions seem with the cluster of cyclists trying to find room with cars behind getting impatient and trying to squeeze through dangerously narrow gaps

So you are never going to convince me or many other cyclists its safer to stop at red lights- although i might be a bit richer

So any PC PlODS out there dont waste your time especially on a rainy day - go and catch real crims

So i know many wont agree wth this, but unfortunately a few cyclists give us all a bad name- such as cyclists

who jump lights in a dangerous way( when there are cars around

cyclists who go on pavments and weave around pedestians- scarring them

cyclists who dont stop at pedestrian crossings when people are crossing-terrible!!!!!!!!!!

But something needs to be done with all these recent deaths, and I would be really interested in what the circumstances were- i would guarantee it wasnt due to jumping a light-unless of course the person had been drinking etc

Most bad accidents/fatalities happen by people obeying the law- so the law needs to be changed

And when are pedestrians going to be fined for jay walking across roads and knocking cyclists off

I got sent flying only 2 months ago by a pedestrian running out in front of me on green lanes, close to the ale emporium- the 3rd time a  pedestrian has knocked me off over the years

Right Rant finished

And anyone/cyclist wants to make our roads safer, see the petition below

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-cyclists

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I certainly did

"Drive each day as though you were on a mission, the goal of which is not to be involved in an accident, cause an accident, or strike a pedestrian."  Very useful, especially along Green Lanes.

The Law is the law until enough pressure or some other force is applied to make change or concession, so until then if you don't want to be stuck at a meaningless crossing, then dismount and run across the road pushing your bike and re-mount on the other side. I have done this on several occassions in front of police cars, so no legal issues to worry about. Let's not talk about "it's not in the spirit of the law" to dismount and run across, the law is the law full stop. Obey the law or take the penalty.

We are moving towards a more controlled society where we are told what is safe, what is not safe and if we believe the safety hype in all instances without question or reason we will loose the ability to think independently about personal safety and just leave the matter of personal safety to law givers, a 100 page white paper or "others."  Worst of all we can be in danger by just believing that a blue line is inherently safe and that if the light RED all cars will have stopped and it is inherently safe.

As we move towards a more controlling society there is no logical reason why pedestrians should also not be controlled in some instances on very busy roads like Greens Lane for example, especially in rush hour. It makes no logic that Pedestrians can walk or run between queues of parked cars while looking the wrong way "incompetent" while cyclist are profiled as subversives for lesser offences. From my experience the same cross section of people exist as pedestrians, cyclist, motorcyclist or motorist. Some people will be careful always law abiding to the in-between and far extreme. So cyclist are not a special breed, just a cross section of regular people who happen to be cycling today. So for me I would not even use the terms cyclist or motorist as defining groups or people but more a definition of controlling the use of certain modes of transport walking, bicycle and car. Separate the mode of transport from the people element and not combine the two.

As far as competency on a bicycle is concerned, this is severely lacking in a large amount of people I have seen riding a bicycle. These people are blind fully unaware of things they may not be doing, that can increase their risk of danger.  So training on safe riding including the most important OBSERVATION would help. Given people who ride a bicycle on the road are the most vulnerable it also equates that they should be the most skilled in observation and defensive riding followed by people on motorbikes then cars. However the fact is that most of these people are not as highly skilled as they should be when riding in heavy traffic and they therefore rely on other higher order road users to look out for their safety.

With all these sad deaths of people on bicycles in the last few weeks, the politics is in full swing and no mention of the root cause but plenty of solutions to ban lorries from London at certain times. The truth is that Boris cannot talk about the competency of people on bicycles as this would go against his strategy of increasing cycling in London without having training and would be seen as a failure if it was announced that 75% of cyclist are incompetent to ride in heavy traffic. If this was announced via a white paper people who cannot think for themselves and to somewhat incompetent would give up riding in London because of "FEAR." We are told what is safe and unsafe and what is fearful or not. So for me, we are being manipulated as riding in central London is a potential dangerous activity even for the most skilled and should come with a health warning in general and not focusing on safety at red light crossing.

BBC London News

The Met Police response to patrol London's roads during rush hour (after the recent upsurge in cyclist deaths) has so far resulted in;

>1400 penalty notices or cautions for drivers

> 750 penalty notices or cautions for cyclists

so more than enough said on the subject except yes I also agree that all cyclists should have third party insurance- I certainly do and always keep it up to date - thanks

On that note can we put this to bed- fed up with messages filling up my email box

Thanks Hugh

It's been mostly a very good debate with a ballsy opening. You can turn off email notifications in your profile.

Hey, thanks for posting this.

Different circumstances, common sense prevails:

CPS drops fixed penalty notice prosecution

http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/cps-drops-fixed-penalty-notice-prosecution

The motorist was not penalised. It's possible that the car was in the 'box' before the lights changed in which case no law was broken.

Rumor! that's all. So someone has talked to witnesses of all 6 incidents? We'll have to wait for the inquests!

so now I have finally found time and to work out how this thread is closed- its now officially done so by me

i know this would be controversial, and I thank you for your contributions, all 130!!

but those who have been rude- really no need!!!!!!!!!!!

Its about thinking outside a box- why would totally law abiding citizens purposely break the law

The answer is that the law needs to be changed- just because its law doesnt mean its right or helps

Introduce filter lights to let us get out of the way- Im sure it will happen in the next couple of years like it has abroad

any peace and love to all haringay community x

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