Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Festival of illegal consumption cannot be attributed to cuts
A week on, and there's the inevitable chewing over what happened in the Sundays. It's been interesting for me to compare those reflections with what Claire Kober told me whan I interviewed her on Friday.
Answering its question "What made a minority tear up the social rules that governs our everyday lives?", The Observer editorial finds two principal underlying causes.
Mr Cameron acknowledges what so many of his supporters seemed determined to deny: economic exclusion, deprivation, call it what you will – this had something to do with the riots.
It is the right conclusion: according to one recent study, the London boroughs of Haringey, Hackney and Lewisham – three areas worst affected by rioting – have the highest ratio of claimants on jobseeker's allowance in England........In Haringey, 54 people chase every job going. Can anyone seriously make the argument that these statistics and other indices like them have nothing to do with what happened?
and
these were riots that bore the imprint of a consumer culture that has increasingly determined ideas of status and achievement in Britain. The "cause" that united many of the rioters was the liberation of desirable "free stuff" from Foot Locker and Vodafone. A riot became a festival of illegal consumption as, in an adrenaline-fuelled frenzy, gang members lines up alongside ordinary teenagers and simply helped themselves.
In my interview with Claire Kober on Friday, I asked what she thought were the factors underlying the trouble in Tottenham.
Kober was keen on a period of reflection and less ready to identify any underlying causes. She was less willing than The Observer to point the finger at unemployment, for example.
When I asked her why she felt that Tottenham had been the powder keg for the worst troubles this country has seen for a generation, Kober said that she was anxious that people don't jump to the wrong conclusions. To my specific question about unemployment, she seemed to want to guide us away from worklessness as the underlying cause:
Indeed unumployment in Totteham is the highest in London. However, Tottenham has had high unemployment in the past. We've had 25 years of peace in Tottenham. I think that's why we can't jump to conclusions at this stage.
Kober was also reluctant to point up any role the recent spending cuts might have had. When I asked her what influence she thought they may have had, she said:
Where I think we shouldn't play the cuts into this is to say 'We saw violence and it was a result of the cuts'. I think that's crass and I think that potentially provides an excuse for what is inexcusable. Gratuiitous violence, the looting of shops, the destruction of individuals'. often independent shopkeepers' businesses, cannot be excused or attributed to spending cuts.
I think that Claire's right not to want to jump to conclusions, but as we all of us struggle to understand what happened, it's hard for many of us not to.
What's your take?
Tags for Forum Posts: london troubles
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by james walsh on
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When Dispossessed folk take what they want illegally = Looting. When Bankers take what they want illegally = Bonuses.
Dispossessed (for that is what they are) are weighed up in court immediately with special 24hr rolling courts. IPCC says it will take at least 6 months to conclude the investigation into the shooting of Mark Duggan. Etc Etc.
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Permalink Reply by Sophie Smith on
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When we studied elizabethan England at school I remember being taught that summer riots were a regular occurance back in those days, especially if it was a hot summer. I seem to remember apprentices were the usual suspects, who presumably were aged about 14-21. My point being, this isn't something new, nor is it something invented by the welfare state. Maybe it's the lack of summer riots in the last few decades which were the abnomally.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I assume that - especially in newspapers and on radio and TV - the commentators and opinion-formers are under enormous pressure to deliver something clever, polished, punchy and above-all certain. Which doesn't mean that all their observations and views should be dismissed. On the contrary, we need all the ideas and insights we can get. There's a complicated jigsaw to be put together from all these pieces. Like you, I thought Peter Beaumont's piece yesterday was very helpful. But then he does actually live in Tottenham.
Among several reasons why I'm still optimistic, is a feeling that we have an opportunity to open up our eyes and ears and do some better learning. Especially if we go beyond the usual voices of people who dominate public discussion. And the stupid and excluding ways it's often conducted.
I briefly met Ed Miliband on Friday when he walked along Tottenham High Road and then came to see the Community Assistance Centre. What struck me was his willingness to ask questions and listen.
Of course, there are many hundreds of people who are now telling us exactly what to make of all these events. They've no doubt undertaken a thorough and exhaustive analysis of the causes; and offer clear and certain prescriptions for action.
You're right Hugh, it's very hard not to jump to conclusions. And especially not to seek the comfort zone of our existing beliefs and preconceptions. It's tempting to either stay within, or return to the echo chambers where we read or listen to voices which agree with us, confirming and validating our beliefs.
But I hope as many people as possible try hard to stay open; and in a listening/ learning mode.
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On this, some HoL members are doing something very valuable - which I hope will continue. That's to draw attention to stuff - on paper or websites - which adds new voices and new pieces to the jigsaw. As I posted yesterday let's take David Starkey as our model. And resolve to engage in discussions in ways which are as unlike him as possible.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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There are a lot of people out there on the take; boiler room scams, cash for questions, cash for news stories, cash for kicking a ball around a piece of grass, smash and grab, politicians claiming things they don't need for expenses
All are the same
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Permalink Reply by Alison on
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Riots are, as Sophie Smith said, a part of life of many countries and ages. Personally, I can't stand the self righteousness and moral superiority of some people in the aftermath; as if you must have an indignant tirade or else you are condoning rioting. Even though simplistic connections don't work, to throw up some connections and possible solutions may be helpful. So: What can be done to prevent more rioting?
If you take these events as being specific to the area and time, I do think these videos about Wood Green/Haringey offer some interesting insights:
Wood Green a few days before the riots:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/video/2011/jul/31/haringey-youth-...
And after: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/12/riot-predict-trouble-not-o...
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Alison* thanks - I think this is one of the best posts i've ever read. The vids are great, especially Chavez, what a great guy.
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Chavez is wonderful, I would really like him to become a civic councillor or somesuch, talk about having your finger on the pulse. Unfortunately, he did say there were going to be more riots.
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Permalink Reply by ElleCarumba on
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The issue of unemployment is an interesting one. Tottenham has (almost?) always had a high unemployment rate, even when the UK overall unemployment rate got down to near-historic lows. A quick google search shows unemployment in Tottenham was 9.8pc in February 2005 when the national unemployment rate was 4.6pc (near historic lows)
That there are 54 job seekers to every job in Haringey is also a little misleading as we are part of London, not an isolated town. I would hazard a guess that the majority or near majority of people in Haringey in employment do not work in the borough anyway.
As we all reflect on what happened, I hope that there will not just be simplistic blame placed on the current economic downturn and spending cuts (most of which have yet to really take affect anyway). Tottenham clearly has long term underlying problems regarding getting some of its residents into work and what happened last week is not just the product of the current economic downturn but has built slowly with some parts of the community seeing persistent unemployment, even when the economy is booming.
So is it the schools? The colleges/vocational training? Lack of sticks forcing people into work? Lack of working role models for some young people? Lack of confidence to go out of their hyper-local neighbourhoods and find work? It should not simply be blamed on the current lack of jobs.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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This from my work colleague Kevin Harris:
The debate has lacked not only appreciation of wildness but also reference to young people’s need to disrupt things. That is what young people do: get used to it. A responsible society will find ways to help this process take place creatively and without negative consequences – in sporting encounter, in adventure, in semi-formal flexible environments like youth centres, by giving young people space without obsessive surveillance or devious assimilation.
Read Kevin's blog here.
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That's about the most sensible thing I've read Hugh, couldn't agree more.
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