Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Boy racers, manners & other delights of driving
The following was moved from the Sainsburys car park meltdown! discussion since it had taken the discussion off topic.
By Joe Bailey 20 hours ago
I love driving, I'm just one of those people.
I also hate big supermarkets, but used to suffer them, until we got stuck for 45 mins trying to get out of Sainsburys GL. Enough was enough. No more driving to Sainsburys. They are a bunch of rip-off-merchants anyway.
However, can't really blame Sainsburys for the traffic that night; I tried to turn right our of Beresford to go along GL and up Allison. Stuck for 30 mins at the bottom of Beresford, so got annoyed and drove along GL on the wrong side and up Allison. Nice I thought... Also got me past the chavvy fools that were beeping their horns and shouting abuse at all and sundry, for no particular reason. Any copper or council camera that may have moaned at me would have suffered a blurt of wrath about turning perfectly good two way roads into a time wasting set of one way roads with stupid road humps. The ladder roads were perfectly good as they were, without Haringey pissing around with them and wasting hours and hours of time, let alone all that petrol, and additional damage to roads + cars from the badly installed road humps. I hate the one way system still, and still feel anger for Haringey for imposing it upon us. Occasionaly, traffic is so bad, I simply avoid GL and drive into Allison the wrong way, from Wightman. Not legal I know, but I'm not going to allow my life to be wasted by the piss poor traffic management that Haringey demonstrates time and time again.
We now do most of our shopping at Yassir Halim. Much better fruit and veg, and a quick walk. I take an old basket on wheels too that belonged to my Grandmother, to help get up the hill (Allison) again. Get some funny looks, but it's very convenient and often a cheaper way to go.
If we need a big supermarket for any reason, my wife either goes to Sainsburys in the week (which we still use as a last resort), or I go to Tesco Colney Hatch, or better still Sainsburys in North Finchley - a bit more of a drive, but an easier to escape from car-park, and a far less busy shop. Also, they often do really good deals on fish at the counter, just before closing on a Sunday :-)
Pitta bread. 45p + per packet in Sainsburys, 4 packs for a quid in Yassir, or 5 packs for a quid in the shop over the road from there. Got to be a better deal! Support local shops anyway, why use the big giants unless you can possibly avoid it?
Anyone who drives to Sainsburys on Green Lanes is clearly mad. If we all stopped using it, it wouldn't remain there, and there would be no problem ;-)
Next is lame, Argos is like hell (who could possibly stand to queue once to buy something, then once again to pick up the item purchsed - Amazon is a better option there), and HomeBase is a bloody rip-off charging near on double the price of other DIY stores on many items. So, we live without using that retail "park", and would rather the whole lot was levelled and grassed over...
Reply by Alison P 20 hours ago Totally agree with you on your comments about the shops in the park but have to challenge your comment about driving the wrong way down roads like Allison. That's outrageous, how dare you. I nearly crashed the other day when someone turned left off Wightman into Seymour Road. Think what you like about the traffic system, but don't put other people's lives at risk because you can't be bothered to go the right way.
Reply by Joe Bailey 15 hours ago Alison, might sound a little obvious, but it's worth pointing out that I do make sure nobody is coming the other way, and live right at the top end next to Wightman... It's not that I "can't be bothered", it's that sometimes it's near on impossible to get home and that's how I "dare" to, as you put it. No lives are ever put at risk from that aspect of my driving, I assure you... If I crashed, that would hurt auld golfey, and that's the last thing I want to do!!
What is one supposed to do if GL is chocker, and it's going to add 1/2 an hour or more just to get to your own house, which you were pretty much outside when on Wightman in the first place? I'm not going to argue as the whole matter is silly, and I'm just working it the only way I can, and certainly I will not change my perceived evil ways - my life is just too short, and it's only done out of necessity; mostly I go the "right" way, which is much longer, and a waste of time... It's just the odd occasion that the direction of travel has to be reversed...
Quite frankly, you can't drive fast enough to crash on those roads anyway... If you've found a way to do so, either you need to fix your brakes, or you've got much better suspension than me, or dare I say you just aren't looking where you're going, which is going to cause an accident no matter what anyone else does.
Certainly I look before making a turn, and make sure that everything is clear before turning in to Allison from Wightman, so I can't really see any real chance of causing an accident as there's plenty of visibility from wightman to the top of the Allison hill, which has several road bumps to cross, giving plenty of reaction time.
Rules were made to be broken after all ;-)
Reply by matt 15 hours ago Children break rules too Joe, especially when crossing one way streets. They're not used to looking out for drivers breaking the law. And their bones break a lot easier than the bumper on your Golf. Next time, you could park in another street and walk back to your house.
Reply by Joe Bailey 14 hours ago Matt, "could" might be the operative word here ;-) Being serious though, if I'm not driving fast, then I am very unlikely to hit anyone... If by some freak chance I did, it wouldn't hurt them anyway at speeds as low as 5MPH - I know, I've been hit at low speed and it does sweet naff all. And yes, that's when I was a kid and cars were much less soft than they are these days with their pesky crumple zones that make even a nudge encountered when parking, cost the earth to repair.
I don't go tearing down the road the wrong way - that would just be silly! I don't even hit 10 MPH, as if needing to go the wrong way, I would stop at the top of Allison, look, or in Health and Safety terms, I make a "risk assessment" and mitigate against any potential collisions by waiting until all is clear, then drive all of 5m the wrong way, turn around, then park up outside my house... After all, if I hit a kid or anyone else, I fully appreciate that it would be entirely my fault, and there's no chance that I'd want to get all that grief, let alone hurt anyone. Given how close to the end we live, I really see no massive issue. It seems quite likely that you're both reading far too much into this, and this really is just not an issue that is likely to arise, especially as going the wrong way is an exception to my normal driving rather than the norm.
Nobody will die, nobody will get hurt, and nobody will get hit, so I think it quite possible that you are both over dramatising things and making a fuss about nothing.
As a side note, in case nobody has noticed, in event of whoever being right or wrong, it's actually not possible to park on Beresford if you live on Allison, as they are in different zones, and I'm not going to be towed just because of bad traffic! Silly yes, but that's the way Haringey deemed it best to split things up.
Also, if kids aren't looking out for drivers breaking the rules, then they aren't from our area for sure, or will one day get a rude awakening when they encounter someone who drives like a nut job; at least I take good care and judge the situation before making my move, have insurance, tax, MOT and plenty of driving experience, unlike many of the motorists in the GL area.
I'm not going to change my ways, I very much doubt that I'll hit anyone, and your warnings have been duly noted.
Reply by Alison P 12 hours ago Very glad you "very much doubt you'll hit anyone", ever so reassuring. I still can't quite get my head around why you're so blase about this - maybe Allison road has a far better view on it from Wightman, but if I tried doing this into Seymour, esp if I was turning left from Wightman, I'd have a nanosecond to do my "risk assessment" and decide whether or not to turn. Certainly the charming young man I came across doing the same into Seymour last week didn't get the best of views before he turned directly into my path.
I totally know how annoying it is to have traffic gridlock which will add time on to your journey, especially when you can practically see your home from Wightman. But I just couldn't do this, I just think it is irresponsible, no matter what speed you drive at. Sorry.
Do you have kids by the way? Hate to pull the parent card, but I find it hard enough explaining to my son why people go through red lights. Explaining why someone nearly crashed into our car because they were going the wrong way down the road was pretty hard too. Rules eh, just made to be broken. That's a good one to teach 'em early, guess that's where I'm going wrong.
Reply by Joe Bailey 12 hours ago Alison, you can twist words however you like; "very much doubt" is tantamount to me saying it's not going to happen. Whether you feel reassured or not, I'm not going to hit you or anyone else, so don't worry about it - there are far more serious problems in life I'm sure. I'm not being blasé - I'm being realistic. If it takes all night to get home, that's all night that I can't be drinking wine - that's a damned serious situation which needs to be avoided at all costs, even if it involves driving 5m down a one way road in the wrong direction. I am honestly not saying that this should be done every night, but on the odd occasion that Green Lanes is impassable, it's a damned fine option that I feel perfectly acceptable, and fortunately, I don't need your approval on this to justify my opinion. It was after all safe enough with recent road works, when roads were allowed to be reverted to two way and no signage was erected... And I would point out that I’ve only done this a few times (countable on one hand) since the conversion of the ladder roads to one way, so it’s not over frequent.
You say that you have difficulty in explaining this type of rule bending or breaking to your kids. I would ask if you have such difficulty in explaining to your wee nipper as to why cyclists use the pavement, go down the wrong way on a one way road, or don't use lights in the dark? I'm sure we could labour all sorts of points, and could verge on the ridiculous, but the fact of the matter is that people do break rules from time to time, and often with good reason. Be it right or wrong, you need to be able to explain the facts of life. Certainly it was always made clear to me by my parents that nothing is ever set in stone, and also that casting scorn is not productive to a happy life. And, certainly, I was always taught to look both ways when crossing, regardless of one way streets or not – that’s just good sense!
Indeed I have a perfectly good view going onto Alison from Wightman – after all, it was always fine before it was made a one way road a few years ago, and likewise, with appropriate caution is perfectly safe now it is a one way. If you don't believe me, you could try looking for yourself!
No idea about your experiences on Seymour, and to be honest, I'm not going to comment on that, as I can't be bothered to put down my glass of wine and go looking right now ;-)
I would say that I certainly would not go the wrong way down Allison if someone was coming the other way at the time and agree that this would be silly.
You can feel free to pull whatever cards you like, it changes nothing for me. I drive perfectly safely (at least in this respect), and would not needlessly put anyone at undue risk. Just have a look; stop on Wightman just at the top of Allison. Observe. See if you REALLY think that going 5m the wrong way down Allison when nothing is coming the other way is really that dangerous. See if you really think that a car or person could appear from nowhere, or out of the blue. If you don't, then no apology is necessary. If you do, then that's life and we must agree to differ. After all, if we all agreed with everything, then life would be far less interesting. Maybe we can simply agree to differ in any case. I certainly wouldn't want to be accused of being over cautious in life!
Reply by Danzigger 10 hours ago So is it ok for everyone to occasionally drive the wrong way down a wrong way street? Imagine if everybody stuck on Green Lanes decided to take a quick, illegal detour the wrong way down a one way street. You'd very quickly have a complete snarl up. Your shortcut only works because most people don't do it. Perfect example of an immoral act.
Reply by Joe Bailey 9 hours ago I actually did GL on the wrong side on that occasion, not Allison (which for the umpteenth time, I only go the wrong way down for very short distances, when nothing is coming), in any case... Nothing was coming for about 10 minutes down GL towards WG, but towards MH, it was blocked completely solid. The options were to leave the car at the bottom of a road in the wrong CPZ, or take to the wrong side of the road which was completely clear, on that particular occasion. I was indeed only there due to the one way system (hence the rant on that). Apologies for not being more clear. I had waited 30 minutes before going down GL on the wrong side - it was pretty desperate! I bet anyone stuck in the car-park would have done the same if it was possible from there. Couldn't turn left down towards WG, as someone had pulled a special move and blocked that up too, just at the bottom of the road. Really, there were few options. I could remain there and be part of a complete snarl for god knows how long, or I could drive down an empty lane and quickly escape. I favour my option. If you don't, that's your call.
It's great that in agreeing with the sentiment of the post (that it was sheer hell on GL at the time, and that Sainsbury’s car park is a bloody nightmare), that so many people could get quite so ratty - what fun, I must post more often ;-)
Reply by John McMullan 11 hours ago I do understand that if you've only been driving in London 30 or 40 years you may not remember that the streets/roads used to not be so much the domain of the car. Car drivers have "assumed ownership" of the roads through a supplicant government supporting a burgeoning car manufacturing industry and a general "love affair" with the motor car. Don't believe me? Take a look through the lovely photos that have been collected here. The tax you pay as a car driver, including your fuel duty, in no way covers the cost of road maintenance let alone the damage an internal combustion engine does to the environment. Roads are paid for mostly by income tax. Even cyclists and pedestrians pay income tax.
Private property owners have also joined this present day Klondike where the car is fair game to create an income.
Turnpike lane is so called because that is where a turnpike operated. This was an opportunity for people in need of a well maintained road to make sure it was well maintained. Nothing has changed.
As for the care of the environment, have they considered how much more petrol is being burnt unnecessarily by the slow and non-moving traffic resulting from the increasing implementation restriction at the same time that the number of vehicles on the roads are increasing.
Interesting. At what point do you think there will be enough/too many cars on the road?
You make a very good point about the road closures around Green Lanes. I suspect that the Harringay Ladder was the last area to get its act together and so now the council are wise to what happens when you gate an area. This is the downside of allowing residents associations to influence planning.
Reply by John McMullan 11 hours ago And here speaks the mind of a sensible person! With all due respect, I'm not sure Huren would appreciate the approval of an avowed law-breaker.
;)
Reply by Birdy_Too 11 hours ago Sorry Joe but everyone I know in this area apart from one thinks that the councils traffic system implemented around 2002 was a vast improvement on what we had. It aint perfect and needs tweaking here and there, but it use to be hell, pure hell and I lived on Allison for eleven years. You must have lived in a parallel existence to me.
Reply by John McMullan 10 hours ago Or on Lausanne Rd which was quiet and had no lorries before... (am I that one?).
Reply by Joe Bailey 10 hours ago I live happily in a parallel existence to lots of different folk, it’s nice where I am, a select few are welcome to join me ;-) I am also perfectly happy for people not to appreciate me; live and let live I think - albeit with reasonable exception, but I hope I wouldn't be classed as a mass murderer, even though I prefer my car to a bicycle!
Being right at the top of Allison, and mainly wanting to use Wightman to go or come, I guess it might be different where I am. More often I need to use Wightman than Green Lanes which has, for as long as I can remember, been a road to avoid when driving, so it was nice to be able to turn in at the top, then around to go out. It’s so frustrating to have to drive so close to your house, only to have to go all the way down into a really sticky traffic spot, only to come back up, practically to the same point as you were, just 5, 10, 15, 20.... minutes before. Sometimes I park on Hewett, but sometimes it’s raining, sometimes I’ve got things to carry, and I also actually quite like my car, so like to be able to keep an eye on it – it was only left for two days without regard, and the council slapped a clamp on, nearly towed it, and all because I’d not remembered to renew the permit which had just expired, while they happily admitted to not having sent out any reminders that month, whilst smiling at the £140 or so that they took from me to un-clamp it.
For what it’s worth, I think that where you live might be the crux of liking, or not liking the one way system – the end you mostly need, coupled with where are positioned along the length of your ladder road, and the direction of your ladder road.
Some roads seem to have loads more traffic now, there can be big queues when I remember this was rarely the case before... So being one way for some at least seems to have given that road loads more traffic, which isn't really an ideal thing for those who live there.
Ours is great when I want to go to work (straight out onto Wightman), but crap when I want to come home (have to go all the way down Hewett or Beresford, then all the way back up Allison), and let’s face it, coming home from work is often more desired than going to work in the first place. Hence, out of sheer desperation (as in, when Green Lanes is totally stuffed), I’ve been known to break the law, yes indeed, but I don’t really think it needs apology, like it or not, as I did so with appropriate caution.
Reply by Birdy_Too 10 hours ago Mmmm..... how do you know where I lived on Allison? Me thinks a well known alias! I haven't seen the verbal and physical fights since. I haven't seen the damage caused to vehicles since. I haven't seen the commuters parking since. I never had to park four streets away since. I never saw boy racers bombing down Allison road since. I haven't seen the global tail backs since (I know there's a couple of roads that suffer).
As I said it's not perfect but ten times better and the people who moan are the folk who use their cars the most and drive two streets up - tough!
Oh the inconvenience of having to go round! Myself along with the vast majority (according to democratic means) supported and still support some logic to the traffic on the Ladder
Reply by John McMullan 9 hours ago I think the Police are a LOT more picky about boy racers having licensed cars. After all, we require 3rd party insurance here and that's very expensive if you're under 25 and own a Subaru Impreza. A relative visiting from New Zealand recently asked where all the boy racers were. They are plagued by them, but then, they don't have compulsory 3rd party insurance. Nanny state and all that. I still get the odd 40 year old in a golf GTI bombing it down over the humps at 70+mph hanging onto the steering wheel for dear life and certainly the O'Donovan's skip trucks weren't bothered by the humps.
Anyway, we're taking this off topic and I blame Joe and his unlawfulness.
Harringay Arena traffic nightmare. Thank you.
PS Nice to see free advertising for Sainsbury's in this week's update ;)
Reply by Birdy_Too 9 hours ago Actually John for once, you're not far wrong. If people had better manners and acted lawfully, things would be a hell of a lot better.
Reply by Joe Bailey 9 hours ago It clearly is all entirely my fault, I’ll cough to that, you’ve rumbled me! Yes, I stuffed up the junctions, and also recently knackered the lights on Endymion Road just to bugger up Wightman every morning for a week. I also caused all of the traffic snarls, road crashes and deaths in recent memory. And I'm only 30, so feel I've achieved a great deal in a reasonably short time. It’s also me that leaves all the rubbish everywhere. Spits out all the gum on the pavements of Green Lanes, abandons crappy old cars, and dumped the old telly in your garden. If I naffed off, you’d have a village like Highgate.
But I won't admit to clinging on to the wheel for dear life whilst driving up the ladder roads at speed. Why would anyone need to do that in a nice straight line; this is the function of a seat. Arm-rests and well designed bucketed seats do however help keep you in place through the tyre screeching corners when turning in... And ABS was surely designed to stop you just short of the five year old that leaps out in the road while you hurtle by. But of course, if it fails, there’s always the squidgy plastic bumpers to help cushion the blow. Being the devil, that’s how things roll – of course, I preferred the old bumpers lined with metal as they were much easier to fix after a hit – and it took a good one to even bend them at all ;-)
Reply by David T 7 hours ago Now we seem to have departed somewhat from the topic I would like to share a stroll down memory lane. In the early 80's I lived in Duckett Road, at the bottom of which was a shop selling very fast motorbikes. Prospective customers would try them out up our road - the objective of the exercise being to see how quickly they could hit 100 mph - usually outside our house. If I was out in the street on these occasions I would stand in the middle of the road with my arm up (silly boy) and stop them. The worst I ever had was a mumbled "sorry mate". Plus ca change...
Reply by matt 1 hour ago A relative visiting from New Zealand recently asked where all theboy racers horse & carts were. Because in New Zealand ...
This discussion is certainly wandering, as they do. Maybe drivers entering Harringay are affected by a strange alien source (likely to be located upon Hewitt Hill) whereby they drive around without purpose or direction; bit like a bee with one wing.
Not even Holloway Rd is as bad as 'Harringay Green Lanes'.
Reply by Clive Carter 17 minutes ago At least the general standard of driving is a hell of a lot better here than in NZ. I feel safer riding a motorbike in central London than driving a car in NZ due to the much lower incidence of homicidal drivers in Britain. The casualness and recklessness of many NZ drivers is just frightening. Why do they need to drive like an escaped prisoner high on crack-cocaine, driving a stolen XR3i and being chased by the police?
By Joe Bailey 20 hours ago
I love driving, I'm just one of those people.
I also hate big supermarkets, but used to suffer them, until we got stuck for 45 mins trying to get out of Sainsburys GL. Enough was enough. No more driving to Sainsburys. They are a bunch of rip-off-merchants anyway.
However, can't really blame Sainsburys for the traffic that night; I tried to turn right our of Beresford to go along GL and up Allison. Stuck for 30 mins at the bottom of Beresford, so got annoyed and drove along GL on the wrong side and up Allison. Nice I thought... Also got me past the chavvy fools that were beeping their horns and shouting abuse at all and sundry, for no particular reason. Any copper or council camera that may have moaned at me would have suffered a blurt of wrath about turning perfectly good two way roads into a time wasting set of one way roads with stupid road humps. The ladder roads were perfectly good as they were, without Haringey pissing around with them and wasting hours and hours of time, let alone all that petrol, and additional damage to roads + cars from the badly installed road humps. I hate the one way system still, and still feel anger for Haringey for imposing it upon us. Occasionaly, traffic is so bad, I simply avoid GL and drive into Allison the wrong way, from Wightman. Not legal I know, but I'm not going to allow my life to be wasted by the piss poor traffic management that Haringey demonstrates time and time again.
We now do most of our shopping at Yassir Halim. Much better fruit and veg, and a quick walk. I take an old basket on wheels too that belonged to my Grandmother, to help get up the hill (Allison) again. Get some funny looks, but it's very convenient and often a cheaper way to go.
If we need a big supermarket for any reason, my wife either goes to Sainsburys in the week (which we still use as a last resort), or I go to Tesco Colney Hatch, or better still Sainsburys in North Finchley - a bit more of a drive, but an easier to escape from car-park, and a far less busy shop. Also, they often do really good deals on fish at the counter, just before closing on a Sunday :-)
Pitta bread. 45p + per packet in Sainsburys, 4 packs for a quid in Yassir, or 5 packs for a quid in the shop over the road from there. Got to be a better deal! Support local shops anyway, why use the big giants unless you can possibly avoid it?
Anyone who drives to Sainsburys on Green Lanes is clearly mad. If we all stopped using it, it wouldn't remain there, and there would be no problem ;-)
Next is lame, Argos is like hell (who could possibly stand to queue once to buy something, then once again to pick up the item purchsed - Amazon is a better option there), and HomeBase is a bloody rip-off charging near on double the price of other DIY stores on many items. So, we live without using that retail "park", and would rather the whole lot was levelled and grassed over...
Reply by Alison P 20 hours ago Totally agree with you on your comments about the shops in the park but have to challenge your comment about driving the wrong way down roads like Allison. That's outrageous, how dare you. I nearly crashed the other day when someone turned left off Wightman into Seymour Road. Think what you like about the traffic system, but don't put other people's lives at risk because you can't be bothered to go the right way.
Reply by Joe Bailey 15 hours ago Alison, might sound a little obvious, but it's worth pointing out that I do make sure nobody is coming the other way, and live right at the top end next to Wightman... It's not that I "can't be bothered", it's that sometimes it's near on impossible to get home and that's how I "dare" to, as you put it. No lives are ever put at risk from that aspect of my driving, I assure you... If I crashed, that would hurt auld golfey, and that's the last thing I want to do!!
What is one supposed to do if GL is chocker, and it's going to add 1/2 an hour or more just to get to your own house, which you were pretty much outside when on Wightman in the first place? I'm not going to argue as the whole matter is silly, and I'm just working it the only way I can, and certainly I will not change my perceived evil ways - my life is just too short, and it's only done out of necessity; mostly I go the "right" way, which is much longer, and a waste of time... It's just the odd occasion that the direction of travel has to be reversed...
Quite frankly, you can't drive fast enough to crash on those roads anyway... If you've found a way to do so, either you need to fix your brakes, or you've got much better suspension than me, or dare I say you just aren't looking where you're going, which is going to cause an accident no matter what anyone else does.
Certainly I look before making a turn, and make sure that everything is clear before turning in to Allison from Wightman, so I can't really see any real chance of causing an accident as there's plenty of visibility from wightman to the top of the Allison hill, which has several road bumps to cross, giving plenty of reaction time.
Rules were made to be broken after all ;-)
Reply by matt 15 hours ago Children break rules too Joe, especially when crossing one way streets. They're not used to looking out for drivers breaking the law. And their bones break a lot easier than the bumper on your Golf. Next time, you could park in another street and walk back to your house.
Reply by Joe Bailey 14 hours ago Matt, "could" might be the operative word here ;-) Being serious though, if I'm not driving fast, then I am very unlikely to hit anyone... If by some freak chance I did, it wouldn't hurt them anyway at speeds as low as 5MPH - I know, I've been hit at low speed and it does sweet naff all. And yes, that's when I was a kid and cars were much less soft than they are these days with their pesky crumple zones that make even a nudge encountered when parking, cost the earth to repair.
I don't go tearing down the road the wrong way - that would just be silly! I don't even hit 10 MPH, as if needing to go the wrong way, I would stop at the top of Allison, look, or in Health and Safety terms, I make a "risk assessment" and mitigate against any potential collisions by waiting until all is clear, then drive all of 5m the wrong way, turn around, then park up outside my house... After all, if I hit a kid or anyone else, I fully appreciate that it would be entirely my fault, and there's no chance that I'd want to get all that grief, let alone hurt anyone. Given how close to the end we live, I really see no massive issue. It seems quite likely that you're both reading far too much into this, and this really is just not an issue that is likely to arise, especially as going the wrong way is an exception to my normal driving rather than the norm.
Nobody will die, nobody will get hurt, and nobody will get hit, so I think it quite possible that you are both over dramatising things and making a fuss about nothing.
As a side note, in case nobody has noticed, in event of whoever being right or wrong, it's actually not possible to park on Beresford if you live on Allison, as they are in different zones, and I'm not going to be towed just because of bad traffic! Silly yes, but that's the way Haringey deemed it best to split things up.
Also, if kids aren't looking out for drivers breaking the rules, then they aren't from our area for sure, or will one day get a rude awakening when they encounter someone who drives like a nut job; at least I take good care and judge the situation before making my move, have insurance, tax, MOT and plenty of driving experience, unlike many of the motorists in the GL area.
I'm not going to change my ways, I very much doubt that I'll hit anyone, and your warnings have been duly noted.
Reply by Alison P 12 hours ago Very glad you "very much doubt you'll hit anyone", ever so reassuring. I still can't quite get my head around why you're so blase about this - maybe Allison road has a far better view on it from Wightman, but if I tried doing this into Seymour, esp if I was turning left from Wightman, I'd have a nanosecond to do my "risk assessment" and decide whether or not to turn. Certainly the charming young man I came across doing the same into Seymour last week didn't get the best of views before he turned directly into my path.
I totally know how annoying it is to have traffic gridlock which will add time on to your journey, especially when you can practically see your home from Wightman. But I just couldn't do this, I just think it is irresponsible, no matter what speed you drive at. Sorry.
Do you have kids by the way? Hate to pull the parent card, but I find it hard enough explaining to my son why people go through red lights. Explaining why someone nearly crashed into our car because they were going the wrong way down the road was pretty hard too. Rules eh, just made to be broken. That's a good one to teach 'em early, guess that's where I'm going wrong.
Reply by Joe Bailey 12 hours ago Alison, you can twist words however you like; "very much doubt" is tantamount to me saying it's not going to happen. Whether you feel reassured or not, I'm not going to hit you or anyone else, so don't worry about it - there are far more serious problems in life I'm sure. I'm not being blasé - I'm being realistic. If it takes all night to get home, that's all night that I can't be drinking wine - that's a damned serious situation which needs to be avoided at all costs, even if it involves driving 5m down a one way road in the wrong direction. I am honestly not saying that this should be done every night, but on the odd occasion that Green Lanes is impassable, it's a damned fine option that I feel perfectly acceptable, and fortunately, I don't need your approval on this to justify my opinion. It was after all safe enough with recent road works, when roads were allowed to be reverted to two way and no signage was erected... And I would point out that I’ve only done this a few times (countable on one hand) since the conversion of the ladder roads to one way, so it’s not over frequent.
You say that you have difficulty in explaining this type of rule bending or breaking to your kids. I would ask if you have such difficulty in explaining to your wee nipper as to why cyclists use the pavement, go down the wrong way on a one way road, or don't use lights in the dark? I'm sure we could labour all sorts of points, and could verge on the ridiculous, but the fact of the matter is that people do break rules from time to time, and often with good reason. Be it right or wrong, you need to be able to explain the facts of life. Certainly it was always made clear to me by my parents that nothing is ever set in stone, and also that casting scorn is not productive to a happy life. And, certainly, I was always taught to look both ways when crossing, regardless of one way streets or not – that’s just good sense!
Indeed I have a perfectly good view going onto Alison from Wightman – after all, it was always fine before it was made a one way road a few years ago, and likewise, with appropriate caution is perfectly safe now it is a one way. If you don't believe me, you could try looking for yourself!
No idea about your experiences on Seymour, and to be honest, I'm not going to comment on that, as I can't be bothered to put down my glass of wine and go looking right now ;-)
I would say that I certainly would not go the wrong way down Allison if someone was coming the other way at the time and agree that this would be silly.
You can feel free to pull whatever cards you like, it changes nothing for me. I drive perfectly safely (at least in this respect), and would not needlessly put anyone at undue risk. Just have a look; stop on Wightman just at the top of Allison. Observe. See if you REALLY think that going 5m the wrong way down Allison when nothing is coming the other way is really that dangerous. See if you really think that a car or person could appear from nowhere, or out of the blue. If you don't, then no apology is necessary. If you do, then that's life and we must agree to differ. After all, if we all agreed with everything, then life would be far less interesting. Maybe we can simply agree to differ in any case. I certainly wouldn't want to be accused of being over cautious in life!
Reply by Danzigger 10 hours ago So is it ok for everyone to occasionally drive the wrong way down a wrong way street? Imagine if everybody stuck on Green Lanes decided to take a quick, illegal detour the wrong way down a one way street. You'd very quickly have a complete snarl up. Your shortcut only works because most people don't do it. Perfect example of an immoral act.
Reply by Joe Bailey 9 hours ago I actually did GL on the wrong side on that occasion, not Allison (which for the umpteenth time, I only go the wrong way down for very short distances, when nothing is coming), in any case... Nothing was coming for about 10 minutes down GL towards WG, but towards MH, it was blocked completely solid. The options were to leave the car at the bottom of a road in the wrong CPZ, or take to the wrong side of the road which was completely clear, on that particular occasion. I was indeed only there due to the one way system (hence the rant on that). Apologies for not being more clear. I had waited 30 minutes before going down GL on the wrong side - it was pretty desperate! I bet anyone stuck in the car-park would have done the same if it was possible from there. Couldn't turn left down towards WG, as someone had pulled a special move and blocked that up too, just at the bottom of the road. Really, there were few options. I could remain there and be part of a complete snarl for god knows how long, or I could drive down an empty lane and quickly escape. I favour my option. If you don't, that's your call.
It's great that in agreeing with the sentiment of the post (that it was sheer hell on GL at the time, and that Sainsbury’s car park is a bloody nightmare), that so many people could get quite so ratty - what fun, I must post more often ;-)
Reply by John McMullan 11 hours ago I do understand that if you've only been driving in London 30 or 40 years you may not remember that the streets/roads used to not be so much the domain of the car. Car drivers have "assumed ownership" of the roads through a supplicant government supporting a burgeoning car manufacturing industry and a general "love affair" with the motor car. Don't believe me? Take a look through the lovely photos that have been collected here. The tax you pay as a car driver, including your fuel duty, in no way covers the cost of road maintenance let alone the damage an internal combustion engine does to the environment. Roads are paid for mostly by income tax. Even cyclists and pedestrians pay income tax.
Private property owners have also joined this present day Klondike where the car is fair game to create an income.
Turnpike lane is so called because that is where a turnpike operated. This was an opportunity for people in need of a well maintained road to make sure it was well maintained. Nothing has changed.
As for the care of the environment, have they considered how much more petrol is being burnt unnecessarily by the slow and non-moving traffic resulting from the increasing implementation restriction at the same time that the number of vehicles on the roads are increasing.
Interesting. At what point do you think there will be enough/too many cars on the road?
You make a very good point about the road closures around Green Lanes. I suspect that the Harringay Ladder was the last area to get its act together and so now the council are wise to what happens when you gate an area. This is the downside of allowing residents associations to influence planning.
Reply by John McMullan 11 hours ago And here speaks the mind of a sensible person! With all due respect, I'm not sure Huren would appreciate the approval of an avowed law-breaker.
;)
Reply by Birdy_Too 11 hours ago Sorry Joe but everyone I know in this area apart from one thinks that the councils traffic system implemented around 2002 was a vast improvement on what we had. It aint perfect and needs tweaking here and there, but it use to be hell, pure hell and I lived on Allison for eleven years. You must have lived in a parallel existence to me.
Reply by John McMullan 10 hours ago Or on Lausanne Rd which was quiet and had no lorries before... (am I that one?).
Reply by Joe Bailey 10 hours ago I live happily in a parallel existence to lots of different folk, it’s nice where I am, a select few are welcome to join me ;-) I am also perfectly happy for people not to appreciate me; live and let live I think - albeit with reasonable exception, but I hope I wouldn't be classed as a mass murderer, even though I prefer my car to a bicycle!
Being right at the top of Allison, and mainly wanting to use Wightman to go or come, I guess it might be different where I am. More often I need to use Wightman than Green Lanes which has, for as long as I can remember, been a road to avoid when driving, so it was nice to be able to turn in at the top, then around to go out. It’s so frustrating to have to drive so close to your house, only to have to go all the way down into a really sticky traffic spot, only to come back up, practically to the same point as you were, just 5, 10, 15, 20.... minutes before. Sometimes I park on Hewett, but sometimes it’s raining, sometimes I’ve got things to carry, and I also actually quite like my car, so like to be able to keep an eye on it – it was only left for two days without regard, and the council slapped a clamp on, nearly towed it, and all because I’d not remembered to renew the permit which had just expired, while they happily admitted to not having sent out any reminders that month, whilst smiling at the £140 or so that they took from me to un-clamp it.
For what it’s worth, I think that where you live might be the crux of liking, or not liking the one way system – the end you mostly need, coupled with where are positioned along the length of your ladder road, and the direction of your ladder road.
Some roads seem to have loads more traffic now, there can be big queues when I remember this was rarely the case before... So being one way for some at least seems to have given that road loads more traffic, which isn't really an ideal thing for those who live there.
Ours is great when I want to go to work (straight out onto Wightman), but crap when I want to come home (have to go all the way down Hewett or Beresford, then all the way back up Allison), and let’s face it, coming home from work is often more desired than going to work in the first place. Hence, out of sheer desperation (as in, when Green Lanes is totally stuffed), I’ve been known to break the law, yes indeed, but I don’t really think it needs apology, like it or not, as I did so with appropriate caution.
Reply by Birdy_Too 10 hours ago Mmmm..... how do you know where I lived on Allison? Me thinks a well known alias! I haven't seen the verbal and physical fights since. I haven't seen the damage caused to vehicles since. I haven't seen the commuters parking since. I never had to park four streets away since. I never saw boy racers bombing down Allison road since. I haven't seen the global tail backs since (I know there's a couple of roads that suffer).
As I said it's not perfect but ten times better and the people who moan are the folk who use their cars the most and drive two streets up - tough!
Oh the inconvenience of having to go round! Myself along with the vast majority (according to democratic means) supported and still support some logic to the traffic on the Ladder
Reply by John McMullan 9 hours ago I think the Police are a LOT more picky about boy racers having licensed cars. After all, we require 3rd party insurance here and that's very expensive if you're under 25 and own a Subaru Impreza. A relative visiting from New Zealand recently asked where all the boy racers were. They are plagued by them, but then, they don't have compulsory 3rd party insurance. Nanny state and all that. I still get the odd 40 year old in a golf GTI bombing it down over the humps at 70+mph hanging onto the steering wheel for dear life and certainly the O'Donovan's skip trucks weren't bothered by the humps.
Anyway, we're taking this off topic and I blame Joe and his unlawfulness.
Harringay Arena traffic nightmare. Thank you.
PS Nice to see free advertising for Sainsbury's in this week's update ;)
Reply by Birdy_Too 9 hours ago Actually John for once, you're not far wrong. If people had better manners and acted lawfully, things would be a hell of a lot better.
Reply by Joe Bailey 9 hours ago It clearly is all entirely my fault, I’ll cough to that, you’ve rumbled me! Yes, I stuffed up the junctions, and also recently knackered the lights on Endymion Road just to bugger up Wightman every morning for a week. I also caused all of the traffic snarls, road crashes and deaths in recent memory. And I'm only 30, so feel I've achieved a great deal in a reasonably short time. It’s also me that leaves all the rubbish everywhere. Spits out all the gum on the pavements of Green Lanes, abandons crappy old cars, and dumped the old telly in your garden. If I naffed off, you’d have a village like Highgate.
But I won't admit to clinging on to the wheel for dear life whilst driving up the ladder roads at speed. Why would anyone need to do that in a nice straight line; this is the function of a seat. Arm-rests and well designed bucketed seats do however help keep you in place through the tyre screeching corners when turning in... And ABS was surely designed to stop you just short of the five year old that leaps out in the road while you hurtle by. But of course, if it fails, there’s always the squidgy plastic bumpers to help cushion the blow. Being the devil, that’s how things roll – of course, I preferred the old bumpers lined with metal as they were much easier to fix after a hit – and it took a good one to even bend them at all ;-)
Reply by David T 7 hours ago Now we seem to have departed somewhat from the topic I would like to share a stroll down memory lane. In the early 80's I lived in Duckett Road, at the bottom of which was a shop selling very fast motorbikes. Prospective customers would try them out up our road - the objective of the exercise being to see how quickly they could hit 100 mph - usually outside our house. If I was out in the street on these occasions I would stand in the middle of the road with my arm up (silly boy) and stop them. The worst I ever had was a mumbled "sorry mate". Plus ca change...
Reply by matt 1 hour ago A relative visiting from New Zealand recently asked where all the
Not even Holloway Rd is as bad as 'Harringay Green Lanes'.
Reply by Clive Carter 17 minutes ago At least the general standard of driving is a hell of a lot better here than in NZ. I feel safer riding a motorbike in central London than driving a car in NZ due to the much lower incidence of homicidal drivers in Britain. The casualness and recklessness of many NZ drivers is just frightening. Why do they need to drive like an escaped prisoner high on crack-cocaine, driving a stolen XR3i and being chased by the police?
Tags for Forum Posts: Wightman Road, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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Talking of Trolls.... how about this sign: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gallmese/4017803122/
Perhaps we should have a HoL-Troll sign too?
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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We could erect one at the bottom of Effingham Rd. Sure I've seen a troll wandering up there.
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Permalink Reply by frank demster on
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My car good. Your car bad.
Blah de blah. OK boys (because this just seems to be a lad converstion now), I hate all your cars, every f/cking last one of them, apart from the taxi ones that get me home when I'm too pissed for the bike or public transport! I got a £30 fpn for cycling between Park Rd and Harringay Gdns on the pavement. There was no one on the pavement and I was going at walking speed. 2 cycle cops gave me it. I told them that next time they wouldn't catch me because I'd be too quick. £30 that is probably by now subsidising some car related bollocks.
Why I am I not allowed to park my light aircraft on Green Lanes?
One way systems are for cars only. Cyclists didn't create the need for them.
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