Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Borough wide 20mph in the offing
Haringey Council today unveiled plans for a borough-wide 20 mile-per-hour speed limit.
Proposals for the limit, to be applied to all council-maintained roads in Haringey, will be presented to the council’s Cabinet next month before a consultation with residents is launched.
Initial proposals will go before Cabinet group on June 18, with consultation beginning soon after.
Work to introduce the borough-wide limit would include street signs, road painting and traffic calming measures where appropriate.
The 20mph limit would apply to all roads in the borough, with the exception of some major routes managed by Transport for London, such as Archway Road, Great Cambridge Road and parts of Tottenham High Road.
Tags for Forum Posts: 20 mph
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
-
We all know that not everyone sticks to speed limits. But in a 70 mph zone few do 100 mph and in a 30 mph zone few do 60 mph. (someone suggested that courts will automatically take away licences from anyone exceeding any limit by 30 mph or more).
Many treat the limit as a target and some will travel at about 10% to 20% above the limit. This is an internationally recognized phenomenon.
The point is that, even if not everyone will stick to 20 mph, it will tend to reduce speeds, which is a good thing. These speeds will be lower than they would otherwise be. Accidents, especially for pedestrians, will be reduced in severity. There may not be overnight compliance, but these things take time.
-
Permalink Reply by Alexander Smith on
-
Deciding on very low speed limits because drivers will be expected to exceed them by 20% is not fair on drivers like me who always (try) to keep within the law by driving a fraction more slowly. I think they are also using the few of us who do slow down to force the rest to go more slowly but this means we suffer constant tailgating and sometimes abuse. If the law says 30mph max. then it should be properly enforced by the police with drivers advised to keep to 25mph to guarantee they won't be caught. By the way on the motorway journeys that I take there is no shortage of vehicles going around 100mph + which they seem to do quite safely most of the time. Of course 60mph would be madness in most 30mph streets and that's probably why its rarely seen.
-
-
because drivers will be expected to exceed them
Not all drivers, only some drivers and over time, a reducing proportion. I'm not trying to excuse or encourage people to break speed limits, just observing what happens in the real world.
It is widely known that there is a tolerance of 10% + 2 mph (according to Wikipedia here) to allow for such things as poorly calibrated speedometers (I understand most manufacturers deliberately have their speedos over-read).
However, anyone who habitually drives at say 15% above the limit takes a risk. Of course they won't be prosecuted on every occasion. Of course also, every law should be properly enforced. In the real world, the police cannot be everywhere, all the time, all at once.
At all speeds, reaction time is constant but the lower the speed the shorter is the time and distance to brake. (BTW, I don't favour humps, but other forms of traffic calming).
-
-
There is no point having a 20 mph zone, Islington has one, and no one sticks to it. Unenforceable, so more speed humps and yet more cash on pointless 'traffic calming measures?
I'd rather see the cash directed towards safer cycling and more cycle routes
-
-
I think the met have given up on taking speeding drivers to task, or indeed anyone who jumps red lights etc, such as at the wood green tube junction
enforcement is via speed cameras and we know what happens - everyone slows down til you pass it.
-
Permalink Reply by Abi on
-
Yup, that's probably true sadly - I think if they really did enforce it (with cameras and consistent fines) then it really could work, but would that be affordable? I'm not rubbishing the idea, just putting the question out there as it sounds expensive if it works as intended!
My Road is already a 20 zone, clearly marked, and despite this we get idiots (actually, mostly van drivers who work for a large company with a presence on Seven Sisters Road) regularly steam up it at double that speed.
-
Permalink Reply by pamish on
-
As an ideal, as a way of reducing accidents, its time has come. But, it's not a way to save fuel, unless you habitually drive at high revs and/or speeds. At 20mph I don't often get out of third gear - I've been testing it. Most efficient fuel use is at low revs in top gear - unless I've misunderstood the laws of physics (chemistry?).
Re enforcement, I've heard at some forum or another that it will start to work as the idea takes hold, one driver doing 20mph will slow down all the others behind them, who will of course not try to overtake but will go, oh yes, we're all doing 20 now. Cameras to reinforce - remember when loads of cars would use the bus lanes? As each of us has got snapped and caught, we don't do it any more. (Or we say our wife was driving.)
-
-
This is the kind of crass stupidity I have come to expect from Islington which has one of the worst records on producing coherent transport policies. Islington's 20 limit is not adhered to and unrealistic limits bring speed controls into contempt. I drive carefully between 25 and 30 so I can drive in 4th gear, 20 needs 3rd, higher revs means more pollotion.
But if Haringey Council's Councillors and officers did their jobs properly, all side roads which warrant 20 limits have not got them, eg Haslemere Road, Waverley Road and Christ Church Road in Crouch End are all candidates but no. Still 30mph, WHY?
But 20 limits on main roads are unenforceable, unrealistic and inappropriate. Buses are slow enough as it is!
30 has been the sensible limit for decades, leave it alone, and if specific locations need a 20 limit for a school entrance, fine, but not a general limit.
And having been taken to the Whittington Hospital in an ambulance, short speed humps, speed cushions etc, are very uncomfortable when on a stretcher.
-
-
I hope the council are going to demostrate their committment to 20mph limits by ensuring that all council vehicles (and those subject to council contracts) are fitted with cheap and easily available speed limiting devices. This would also greatly reduce insurance premiums and fuel consumption, saving council taxpayers money. The evidence suggests that, with the stop/go nature of urban driving, 20mph limits typically reduce fuel consumption by limiting excessive acceleration and smoothing the flow of traffic (less stacking at the lights).
While I think 20 is definitely worthwhile, it's really not enough to produce a noticeable difference in neighbourhoods - kids won't suddenly start playing in the street again. A road with cars travelling at 20mph still feels much too hostile a place. If Haringey council are serious about augmenting the mode shift away from cars that is already underway in the borough, they need to start closing residential areas as useful routes for through traffic (like Hackney is doing) and providing safe space for walking and cycling separated from motor traffic on major roads.
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
