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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Another Turkish restaurant has just opened on Green Lanes, Niyaziusta, located across the Salisbury pub. That makes it the 18th from Manor House Station until Selale next to Tesco.I was wondering, are they not getting near market saturation by now? I know we now have the Fish & Chips, Bun & the Bar, Tramp and the Indian restaurant since last year which have all added a bit of much-needed diversity to the area, but I do not understand why there is still such low diversity of businesses on this stretch of Green Lanes (kebabs, betting shops and hairdressers, essentially). 

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That wasn't trolling. Sarcastic yes, but definitely not causing the issue of too many Turkish restaurants on GL. Please see my subsequent posts.
Not true. Many of my neighbour's can remember Harringay long before the Turkish restaurants.
Well on the 2 blocks from my road there's greengrocers, newsagent, chemist, bank, nail Shop, barbers, jewellers, Internet cafe, pubs, curtain shop, pizza, chicken shop, shoe shop, dentist, cafes, Chinese medicine, estate agents, cake shop, sewing machine shop, locksmith, solicitors, photographic studio, fish and chips.....looks pretty diverse to me

I think that's a tad harsh, Jane. When I moved here in 1988, most Green Lanes businesses were actually Greek Cypriot (or long-standing non-Greek/non-Turkish) and Turkish and Kurdish enterprises were mainly further south, towards Newington Green. Since then, much of the Greek community has moved up towards Palmers Green; but, like so much of London, the ethnic mix has changed over time and no doubt will again in future (just look at Little Italy in Clerkenwell or the Huguenot/Jewish/Bangladeshi East End). It's not completely unreasonable to wonder if this stretch of road can actually sustain another restaurant; time will tell if it's a commercial success, but as a friend in Crouch End said of their area recently "there are 50 places to eat but nowhere to get your shoes mended".

However, ChrisTofer might like to note that in the council's consultations on Harringay and Wood Green improvements a couple of years ago, respondents felt this stretch of Green Lanes was safer at night because of the restaurants and night-life, while Wood Green (as is very apparent) was cold, dark, deserted and scary.

And, actually, most of the food available here in 1988 was dreadful - two Chinese takeaways, a couple of kebab shops and Pizza Hut - so maybe Turkish restaurants benefit both diners and the community?

To me - as a non-Turkish person - sometimes this forum seems to have a (for me) a low but still slightly uncomfortable level of animosity to the Turkish/Kurdish community.  Nothing overt, but lots grumbles about too many Turkish business, Kurdish protests being annoying etc. etc.

If I was someone from that community visiting this forum for the first time I don't think I'd feel entirely welcome. I'd be really interested to hear from anyone from a Turkish/Kurdish background who posts on here whether that's just me being oversensitive.

I think you have hit the nail on the head Betty (and articulated it far better than me!)

The vast majority of people who use this forum appear to be white and middle class. There is obviously nothing wrong with this (I am of this demographic). But I feel the "community ethos" of some of the posts made are only supportive of the said demographic.

I guess for cultural/language reasons, it is difficult to engage with everyone who lives on or works on Green Lanes. And it's disheartening to see this shabby but loveable corner of London changing to suit the newly arriving social classes and not the community as a whole. I support new independent businesses, but the loss of Turkish business would change the area completely. GL is synonymous with Turkish restaurants and I would hate for that to change any time soon.

Didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers.

My reply to Betty gives my views on the accuracy of her hammer blows (as in to hitting-nails-on-the-head).

As to your assumptions about the demographics of HoL users, my feathers are laying quite flat and unruffled. We've had the conversation about the race and class of HoL users before. It usually goes along the lines of it being very difficult to discern the race of HoL users, but accepting that like pretty much every forum-based space on the internet, the socio-demographics are unlikely to be wholly representative of society, even the local one.

Having said that, if you look at studies done on how social networks operate, you'll find that different demographics have favoured ways of working with their networks. Still today, some for instance favour using the hairdresser as their networking hub. I'm sure this is only part of the story, but for me it was an interesting finding. (As it happens, the London School of Economics did a study on just this subject right here in Harringay).

Notwithstanding language and the preferences of socio-economic groups, HoL's doors are wide open to anyone.

With regards to the change you discern on Green Lanes, what I witness more than anything else is the amazing success of immigrant groups.

Let's begin with the Turkish community. If you start at Ducketts Common, you have Dogtas, now a thriving furniture multiple. A little further south, you reach Beans & Barley run by two Turkish boys from Manor House and Jam in a Jar run by another norf London Turkish boy. Just opposite them you have Hawes and Curtis - Jermyn Street shirtmaker to kings of England and now Turkish owned. Then Selale, run by three Turkish guys who came here with nothing, Gokyuzu, the same and spreading all over North London. Next door is Hala run by a guy who arrived in the UK just ten years ago. For the first couple of years, he spent his mornings learning English before pulling a thankless 12 hour shift as a bus boy. Through sheer hard work, some flair and a bit of risk-taking, he's now running a successful and profitable restaurant. Let's not even mention Bun in a Bar, the Print shop and so on.

Then there's the Indian community. We have opticians, restaurants, pharmacies, hardware stores and now a pub. The pub is second generation Harringay too; the boys who run it are local, Indian and no idea what class. Where do they fit in your scheme of things changing?

Who is the Polish place, the Vietnamese place or the new juice bar catering to?

We all also love, Blend and Harringay Local - and yes they're white, but not a one of them is English - Aussie, German and Danish.

I see plenty of change on Green Lanes, lots of improvement, plenty of vibrance and much to celebrate, but I don't see this "loveable corner of London changing to suit the newly arriving social classes". Far from it. In my construct of things, I read a wonderful story of immigrant success serving a very diverse set of demographic groups. We all benefit from these changes and long may Harringay rock!

Would agree with this and love Harringay for it!

I can see your point and do agree with a lot of it, thanks.
Turkish businesses are not going anywhere and I don't wish them to. Once again my point is, there are many other cultures and communities in the area that I would like to see represented. If that makes me a class snob, racist, etc. in your eyes, so be it.

It's possible that there has been a tiny amount of 'low level animosity' that we've missed Betty, but on the whole I'm inclined to disagree. People have written about their wishes that there was more diversity, but vey often that comes with a rider that people don't want the Turkish places to go, it' just they want other places as well. I don't detect animosity in that.

I assume that since you're commenting on this post, you think this post typifies what you call 'low level animosity'? If so, I'm afraid I don't see it. 

I think you're right that there have been one or two moans about the Kurdish protests, but to be far that's a tiny minority of voices and there's usually much more support for their cause. 

I'll be happy to eat my hat if you or anyone can show me that I'm wrong. 

I used to be jealous of the Kurdish protests but looking into them more and doing some due diligence reading I think they're an amazing people and I clap loudly every time one of those protests goes past. From speaking to others this view point is finding some ground locally.



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