Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Africans in Chestnuts Park
What's going on tonight? Repetitive West African chanting for over an hour.
Is it a festival or world record attempt?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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PARK noise and Haringey Council's conflict-of-interest in dealing with it:
Yesterday, I set out why the council is unable to deal objectively with their Finsbury Park-customers' noise (pecuniary interest) and the likely effect on council employees.
But there is one group of council employees I did not mention, who have had the sharpest conflict of interest.
Duty of the council's legal service
My understanding is the legal service role was recast following the Blair local government "reforms". i.e. the Strong Leader model, Cabinet System, that creates the conditions for authoritarian leadership. When applied in Haringey, this model often leads to trouble.
My further understanding is that council lawyers owe no responsibility to ordinary or "backbench" elected representatives, and their sole duty is to the "cabinet". And in effect, to the leader who can at will, hire and fire members of the "cabinet". It follows that council lawyers will defend cabinet policies.
Such as Haringey Council's Major Events Policy.
I was going to say their conflict of interest was on full display over the big Licence Review (2019?), but in fact, their conflict was hidden.
Noise from the council's park customers
The Licensing Committee has a majority of Labour members who understand their Group's policy for Major Events.
Following a two-evening Hearing for a Licence Review of Festival Republic in Finsbury Park, the Committee made some modest Licence variations, mainly relating to NOISE.
On the last day for Appeal, Festival Republic lodged an Appeal at the Highbury & Islington Magistrate's Court. I was there, and there was a chaotic Hearing that was quickly adjourned and nothing more was heard. Publicly.
Lawyers and sound levels
One might expect that Council lawyers would defend decisions of the Licensing Committee. But where this conflicts with the wishes of their employer, not so much.
It later transpired that lawyers for the council got together with lawyers for Live Nation /Festival Republic and agreed a common position on sound levels. In effect, they were all on the same side!
In other words, the Committee's Decision was later watered down behind closed doors. This is democracy in action at Haringey Council.
Naturally, this was not covered in the council's corporate-propaganda magazine that we pay for.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Hi, Brian Mahoney. Have you or anyone else who heard the noise actually checked out Clive Carter's alternative theory, yet? If so were you able to find anthing matching the offending park sounds online?
It's unrelated to musical noise, but I can confirm from my own experience of Clive Carter's latest post When I was an elected councillor, at one point I was told by a senior Council lawyer that he was no longer able to offer me a legal opinion because I was not in the so-called cabinet or the Council leader. Those Blair legal deforms were plainly a blockage to councillors trying to do their jobs.To be fair and as far as I recall, at that time Tony Blair wasn't complicit in Genucide.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Mahoney on
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Good morning Alan. I can only suggest that you reread my comments.You will see that a) I didn't know where the noise was coming from and b) I haven't disputed Clive's explanation. I have simply said that the noise sounded like West African music. I don't know why that is problematic and why you are so interested in disputing it.
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NOISE and "working class struggle"
Loud noise from Haringey Council Finsbury Park customers can travel for up to two miles. As a former Highgate Councillor, I know it has been reported from that distance.
The nature of the council-approved sound as experienced by a resident, will depend on wind, distance, terrain and temperature. And bass frequencies.
I heard noise at the time and date quoted, but it was muffled.
By the time the council-approved noise came through my open window (facing east) it wasn't especially loud, but it was long. And tedious.
I don't know what kind of "music" it was.
However—before being elected leader—the current council leader several times tweeted about "Grime", apparently a music genre, and a claimed relationship with working class struggle.
Cllr Ahmet referred to this article in The Independent.
Grime has been broadcast with powerful amplification across three Boroughs from the council-controlled park. We are told it is part of the council's cultural offer. In my view, it is not fair to impose one's own musical tastes on thousands of others.
Some working class residents work shifts, sometimes struggle to sleep in the summer and may not always welcome Haringey Council's cultural offer and their corporate customers' gigs.
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Clive, I vaguely remember a joke about a tailor offering men's suits in any colour ; as long as it was grey. In this case the suppposed offer is any musical genre as long as it's West African.
As you have been from the start, Clive, you're making an honest attempt to discover/uncover the source of the park noise. Separating out fact, fiction, fantasy, fashion and Peray's political flim-flam. But sadly it's unlikely that people who started by closing their minds are going to change their apparent groupthink. Searching, finding, and listening to the sounds and music you suggest ; with open ears and receptive minds, could provoke deep anxiety. It may not be West African.
Although perhaps I'm wrong. Many People can pretend that everyone always believed something else.
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ALAN, the enduring nuisance for residents is Haringey Council-condoned noise from Haringey Council-controlled and rented Finsbury Park.
Some time ago, a Haringey resident had a letter published in The Standard.
The gist—as I remember it—was: if we have a noisy neighbour, then we can complain to the council. But who do we complain to, when the noisy neighbour is the council?
The council has the direct financial interest—and the ability—to dismiss or disregard noise complaints from residents, about their customers' Events in Finsbury Park.
In my view, this is a rotten state of affairs.
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THE linked video below about irritating unwanted sound, is analogous to the noise from Finsbury Park over the summer, allowed by Haringey Council and caused by their corporate customers.
The grey cushion represents our public park and the white dog is Haringey Council. The loud squeaker is a metaphor for Haringey Council's Major Events Policy.
Many residents would sympathise with the annoyance of the dark cat.
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Permalink Reply by Martin (Woodside)
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There was a feature on ITV's six o'clock news last night about the Finsbury Park events. Various people interviewed including councillor Emily Arkell.
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LINK to video.
As well as the Cabinet Member for Parks, Trustees for the Friends of Finsbury Park are interviewed. The former speaks up for the council's continued, crass commercial exploitation; the latter speak up for our public park and nature, that has no voice otherwise.
It was a pity that the points made by FoFP about ground compaction were edited out.
Our public park is hammered every summer thanks to Haringey Council's rotten Major Events policy. The council is Landlord, Licensor and Licensing Authority. The only long term solution is for control of the park to be removed from irresponsible local council hands.
There is precious little evidence of the £1.3 million being spent on Finsbury Park: it appears most of the money is siphoned off elsewhere.
Year after year, the council is steadily running down our park. Any walk today through Krankbrother's Quarter would show the state of the paths and carriageway.
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