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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

News on Some Truly Radical and Imagintive thinking on the Sainsbury's Traffic Disaster

They caused it between them, Sainsbury's, the Arena and the bumbling Council. Sainsburys and the Arena are profiting. And this is the best they can come up with between the three of them?

This from Haringey Council's website:

Improving shopping congestion in Green Lanes

Wednesday 2 April 2008

A range of options to improve traffic flow around a shopping complex in Green Lanes were discussed at a meeting convened by Haringey Council on Monday 31 March.

The meeting was called to consider ways of addressing increased congestion around the junction of Williamson Road and Green Lanes, N4, by the Arena shopping development and Sainsbury's.

Representatives from the council and Wildmoor Properties - the owners of the Arena complex - and Sainsbury's agreed to look at a number of options to improve the traffic flow.

These include potentially rerouting traffic around the complex itself. Other possible options include working with partners to introduce a lay-by at the southbound bus stop by the junction with Williamson Road. This would ease traffic flows as vehicles would no longer have to wait behind buses at the bus stop.

Representatives at the meeting also agreed to enter into discussions with London and Quadrant Housing Trust, which owns land at the rear of the site, over the possibility of introducing emergency access only to the site from Finsbury Park Avenue.

Cabinet Member for Environment and Conservation, Cllr Brian Haley, said:

"This was a useful meeting and I was very pleased with the positive response we received from Sainsbury's and Wildmoor Properties.

"There are no simple solutions to these problems. We need to work very closely together and with a range of other partners if we're going to tackle this congestion effectively.

"I look forward to meeting with both organisations again in May and I hope some positive progress will have been made on all sides."



No Brian. There are no simple solutions - except perhaps getting a proper job done during the planning application process . And we too hope for some postive progress, but we've learned not to hold our breaths.

Tags for Forum Posts: Sainsbury's Story, sainsbury's, tfl, traffic

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Pretty feeble, I agree. I wonder what they mean by "potentially rerouting traffic around the complex itself"?
It strikes me they need to considerably reduce the number of parking spaces - which would free up space for pedestrians and cyclists - the walkway at the front of Argos, Next etc is pathetically narrow, for example. They could also introduce a system of monitoring the number of cars parked at any one time and estimate the length of time it takes to exit the place, with realtime weblinks so people can decide whether or not to bother venturing out in their cars.
"potentially rerouting traffic around the complex itself" - asking the snake to eat itself?
> realtime weblinks so people can decide whether or not to bother venturing out in their cars.

I can see it now, people glued to their screens on a Sat morning just itching to leap into their car and race for that spare parking space ... and smashing into each other outside MacDonalds,

> "potentially rerouting traffic around the complex itself"

I thought they meant ; create a roundabout in the middle of Sainsbury's car park and put sign up saying that the longest to stay on it without blowing their top may win a prize (lottery ticket)

These people in this meeting obviously have no clue whatsoever!
This bit
Other possible options include working with partners to introduce a lay-by at the southbound bus stop by the junction with Williamson Road. This would ease traffic flows as vehicles would no longer have to wait behind buses at the bus stop.
is a classic example of the joke about the man who drops his car keys in the dark and is looking for them under the street light rather than where he dropped them, it's easier to see under the streetlight.
The bus stop is not the problem.
The strategy with the congestion charge was based upon the knowledge that a small reduction in actual traffic volumes should lead to a big reduction in congestion. The opposite also holds, a small increase in traffic can lead to a big increase in congestion. It's a classic tipping point problem which is probably why it caught them out.

They obviously consider that a reduction in parking spaces is not an option - that's why what they come up with seems feeble. Getting rid of car spaces probably does mean getting rid of customers but as Hugh rightly pointed out, this should have been addressed at the planning stage...

I don't count it as incompetence, traffic is a very complex area, but I think they sailed a little close to the wind when they introduced the possibility of all that extra traffic - it smells like there was greed in there somewhere doesn't it?
They clearly never considered the hele-pad option on the supermarket roof.
I have a suggestion - they should knock down the Mcdonalds and create another 'way out' plus more parking spaces there.



(can anyone tell that I have a dislike bordering on hatred of mcdonalds?......)
I already suggested that in another post.. :D
Do they mean the bus stop near to the ramp up to Homebase? Must confess I'd NEVER seen that as part of the problem! How on earth will they build a layby? There isn't that much pavement there, and then just a little planted area up against the wall to the carpark.

All looks a bit like fiddling while Rome burns really. This was inevitable from the moment they granted planning permission for the site to be developed in this way. I imagine they will never contemplate a sufficiently dramatic reduction in parking spaces. They could start charging, but then look how successful that was at Ikea in Edmonton (ie nobody went so they abolished the charges)...
I'm delighted to report that the promised rerouting of traffic from Sainsbury's via Finsbury Park Avenue at the weekend never happened. From reading this it would seem that the nice man at Sainsbury's Customer Service desk who informed me that it was to happen was a. ill informed b. making stuff up.

All is not lost though, we were clamped on on Finsbury Park Avenue on Sunday. Having lived, and parked my car, there for a couple of years I was surprised to learn that it has now become a private road.
Re. nice man at Sainsbury's customer service desk 'making stuff up'

Wonder if it's the same person who suggested the lower corner of Finsbury Park might need to be turned into emergency parking for frustrated shoppers? All that tarmac for a loaf of bread.
Has it not occurred to any of these morons that the traffic lights are the main problem? Of course it gets congested when the lights only let 3 cars through at the time. And if you turn right, you will be stuck behind a bus under the bridge, so it all piles up behind you, and no one else can get through. I'll say it again: Flatten McDonald's and make the whole thing a roundabout. Simple!
Can I have a job on the council now?
Completely agree - unfortunately it just won't happen. Perhaps McDonalds should change it's name to "Drive throu and queue out (for about an hour!)"

Also get rid of bendy bus clogging up the traffic under the bridge. That would remove two of my pet hates in one go!!

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