Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Government Petition Website: EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum
Anything's worth a try.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 0n59eal4meshz on
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Stephen
Let's dissolve the people and elect a new one!!
As you're in Berlin you'll know where that one comes from!
But something similar to that is floating around London this extremely crazy weekend! Insurrectionary Crouch End wants to sock it to Wisbech!
Oh, and there's also a Palace Coup against Corbyn!
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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I would have hoped that the Brits might have learnt something from what happened in Germany in the early 1930s, instead of allowing themselves to be whipped up into this 'out,out,out' frenzy, which could be seen all over in the social media.
But no, they have been driven into this situation, by a media system that has incessantly repeated untruths for decades, in exactly the same way as the n+zis scapegoated back then, even choosing to use similar images and outrageous lies and sadly, as we have also seen here in this thread, they are repeated like a mantra, parrot fashion, by normally sensible people.
We all know, that the result of this referendum really had nothing to do with the EU, but with Islamophobia and general fear of the different. What else does 'Give me back my country' mean? The majority of those who voted #leave are exactly those who have the most to loose. The return of sovereignity to the U.K. will be so minimal , that all I can call it is 'a piss in the ocean'.
If the result had been reversed, of course the #leave brigade would have been agitating in exactly the same way as the #remain supporters are doing.
At the end of the day, the referendum result is not binding. What we have also seen is, the #Brexit leaders didn't really want out, or at least didn't believe their argument would win. They only wanted to stir up trouble and for that, I will never forgive then. As for Farage calling his supporters the 'decent' people in this country. He really should be taken to task for saying that.
Let me also give you a tip. You in the U.K. really must stop fighting WW2. It ended in 1945 and the rest of Europe has moved on. Germany has confronted it's past in exemplary fashion. If you've ever visited Berlin since re-unification you will know that on every corner, memorials to the past, who lived there, who was murdered, can be seen. It really is a pity that the U.K. hasn't confronted it's colonial past and all the deaths, brought about by the push to spread Britishness or Christianity, in the same way. But continues to persue the imperialistic stance in history lessons and museums, that Britain was always on the right side of history. It wasn't. So let's, in future, leave Berlin and the Third Reich out of this discussion.
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Third Reich was never mentioned. First comment related to Brecht's poem about 1953 revolt against -against (?)- guy with goatee!?? Got it -Walter Ulbricht!
But it simply won't do to portray opponents of the EU as dupes of the media and to say the referendum is not binding. That is the language from which civil war can start.
To reiterate, I believed it was in the interest of London to remain in the EU but, guess what, a majority of 2 million English electors disagreed. That should be the new starting point, so let's move on.
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No, the outers only had a majority of of one million plus something. It's a majority worth noting, but it's not binding. It never was.
David Cameron has now put himself in the history books alongside Lord North, who was accused of loosing 'America', for doing untold damage to the U.K. it's economy, people and their futures.
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Stuart .. I see where you are coming from with the 17th June (1953) uprising, BUT I don't think the situation is comparable.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Stephen, exactly what I was worried about. The racists zombies have awoken and are emboldened. Of course you have such people in Germany as well.
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Yes, sadly most countries have then. Until last year, there was always a stigma on people who spoke out in that way and the problem was often played down. Mainstream German politicians have now seen that it can't be played down anymore and are acting accordingly.
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I just hope whatever happens - in or out- that we can rebuild our nation as a tolerant, equal and prosperous society together. Forgive me if this is a bit emotional but I feel as a country we are broken, and I am terrified about who we've become - racism has a platform, the far-right have become galvanised, old wounds (the Troubles etc) about to open again. Equally I am so proud to live here in London, on the Ladder, among good people. It really is a privilege!
Maybe a more devolved London would well for us - they were talking about that on the Politics Show this morning. Apparently only 7% of our tax money stays in the city, and in Manchester, they've been offered plans to have more control over their healthcare. Maybe we could have the same? Population wise we're bigger than Scotland and Wales after all. For people interested in the more cultural ramifications, I enjoyed this article in the LRB about Divided Britain. I think the author really hits the nail on the head http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2016/06/24/lynsey-hanley/divided-britain/
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Permalink Reply by Finsbury Park Ranger on
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From the guardians comments section:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
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Coco, I think the comments immediately after the article are interesting re immigration, the perception vs the reality. Elsewhere it was pointed out that the 'Labour' voters of the Northeast & Wales who voted 'exit' have the least growth in immigration into their neighbourhoods. The right wing media has been singled out for constantly stoking the fire. And now there's the added effect of social media.
Same thing is happening in other countries including the US. People in NYC feel they have a very different outlook to people in the south & midwest and vice versa. Just like London vs the provinces. It has kinda always been that way just this Referendum has highlighted the divide.
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Hmm - looks like a few posts after Matt's have been pulled, leaving Coco and I in a rather odd conversation.
To avoid any confusion, my posts 4, 7 and 8 below are not in response to Coco, Stephen or Matt, but to other posts which have been removed.
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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No posts have been 'pulled'. Fred has left the site and, unless a departing member requests otherwise, their posts go with them.
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