Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
CCTV in the passage
Tags for Forum Posts: cctv
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
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Hi Chris,
I think I'll start right from the top of the thread again so we can debate this a bit further because I do think this is a fascinating topic. I can honestly say the thought of turning any area into "reality TV" is to me so fundamentally wrong but I find it hard to express exactly why. Firstly I cannot remotely understand what people's fascination is with monitoring cameras remotely. To me it's snooping and an invasion of privacy. Just because technology has made it possible to do so doesn't make it right or desirable. For me the use of CCTV is a necessary evil which we should limit to only those areas where it's strictly needed. We certainly shouldn't be allowing any Tom Dick or Harry access to public cameras, or the right to set up private cameras in public areas. I think the current legal framework achieves the right balance between protecting privacy and protecting the public from crime. Technology can be great. I loved watching Peregrine chicks growing in their nest high up in the eaves of a Cathedral. But when I caught a guy filming a girl on the tube, zooming in on her cleavage and then her crutch, I was appalled and intervened and insisted he deleted it. The technology on his phone allowed him to do it. The girl concerned was in public so can't prevent it and wouldn't have even known about it had I not intervened. But does it make it right? No it doesn't.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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You know, that blackboard and chalk idea is brilliant.
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That's a bit OTT for my tastes... particularly the naff little wooden bridge... one step away from fishing knomes
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Fishing gnomes naff? They're ironic and post-modern Antoinette!
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I remember suggesting hop scotch squares... or those dancing foot steps that you follow to learn dances... that would be fun
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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on
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Thanks Antoinette - it feels as if you want a better yesterday :)
I totally condemn the appalling stuff you witnessed - nobody is free to invade personal space. Even worse I hear happens, mainly to women, on public transport - it demands action and just shows how far we have to go to even begin to win the equality everyone has a right to, and is being denied.
Would you want bus cctv cameras removed? I think they deliberately put the TV screen where most passengers can see it to act as a deterrent. I think that does remind people that the rest of the bus can see them. If the same 'collective' view was available in the passage would it not help fellow travellers to be able to feel less alone?
If cctv can be used for good, then let's use it. I share your understandable desire not to be surveilled - I don't want people I don't know looking at me in general (I'm not that attractive anyway!) but if it's helping, then I'm OK with it, as I guess you would be too?
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Well your reference to the CCTV on buses is interesting. I think they fall into the category of those that are necessary and proportionate. The big difference with other bus users seeing the footage is you are there at the time.... my son loves to watch himself going in to Sainsburys on the surveillance camera screen... but anyone watching could just as easily just watch him entering in real time/life. The point is you can see who is watching you too because you're there. If someone I couldn't see was watching me walk down the Passage (not the Police or a Council CCTV operator but an anonymous and unaccountable member of the public) that would make me feel unsafe not safe.
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I think, as you've implied, that many people (who think CCTV 'works') would consider it a necessary and proportionate use of CCTV if it in fact did make the passage a safer and happier place, which is what could be argued it does for buses.
So it comes down to whether you would feel safer knowing the public was watching you in a public place, or not, doesn't it?
Some people (I heard about this happening in I think it was New York) are putting their phones in their shirt pockets facing outwards as they walk home at night and streaming the images live to the web so that anyone can see what their cameras see and record their progress (including their friends). They say it really helps reduce the anxiety. A sort of citizens version of the body cams many police already wear.
I mentioned this to my daughter a while back in case it hadn't occurred to her that, in a way, she can be 'accompanied' if she so wishes.
Is that OK or would you tend to want to discourage people from doing that as they walk along the passage at night? Is it in fact allowable according to the law?
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As I said in my original "consultancy" post (!), you can record what you like if it's your personal use. You can stream that back to a private site if you wish but not publish it the wold wide Web.
If you are so paranoid as to want to live video stream your progress I would recommend counselling. That is not a normal way to live. I don't think your daughter is better protected by doing that than simply texting you "on my way home Dad. Back in 10 mins". What I think is much more important is to teach children the life skills to know how to stay safe, and not rely on other people (well meaning or not) to keep an eye on them. I have friends who would happily microchip their children irrespective of the damage they might do to them (psychological and physical) in the process.
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Even the Police only switch on their body cams when there is an incident to record, they don't record everything all the time....
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Coincidentally I had lunch with an old school friend the other day and we talking about our advancing middle age... she was saying that she recently realised that if a man looked her up and down in the street she now automatically assumes they're going to rob her not try to chat her up!
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