How to fund HarringayOnline

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Liz on September 10, 2008 at 20:45

Can I remind people reading this post that the HOL navigators is an open group that meets regularly to discuss matters such as sustainability, development and direction of the website. All are welcome to attend. B2 will no doubt post the next meeting time and venue in the group soon.
http://www.harringayonline.com/group/holnavigators

For what its worth, its not a website that changes things, its people. The Harringay charter is an example of attempting that. The Action on housing meeting is another example. This is a hub, a place to connect and bounce ideas around. It can achieve nothing on it own, only offline engagement can do that.

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on September 10, 2008 at 21:03

If some rotter could convince half the people on here to vote en-bloc they could have all three ward seats. Just one example of how this can be abused. As it stands any attempt to do something like that would most likely just piss people off.

Permalink Reply by Optique on September 10, 2008 at 22:02

It would be tricky to accept advertising but turn away certain advertisers. Who gets to decide which businesses are small and cuddly and which ones are big and evil? What if a lovely new organic food shop opened on Green Lanes and wanted to advertise, but it was backed by Whole Foods Market (the people behind Planet Organic)? What if an honest and hard-working local businesswoman wanted to advertise her new shop, and it was an independent bookmakers? What if a local political party wants to take an ad?

Surely if advertising is accepted then it should be available to all-comers. Any restrictive policy would mark out the website as excluding certain parts of the community, and then it loses its reason for existence.

Permalink Reply by matt on September 10, 2008 at 22:39

Well said Optique. So clear. Advertising for all or not at all.

After all, this site being recognized with an award by the PM is surely little different to accepting money from big business .... they sing from the same hymn sheet.

Permalink Reply by Takaokagiejin on September 10, 2008 at 23:02

I think the charity idea is difficult as it is very complex and time consuming to set up. In addition it will cost several hundred pounds in fees and, as we are only looking for that amount, it seems unnecessary.

However asking for funding from local individuals for an agreed set of wide outcomes is a real possibility. HOL has already approached existing members to "chip in" for upkeep of the site and secured some income through this method. Having received and spent this money wisely HOL has now proved it is not some dodgey unreliable sort and can be trusted to handle donations in the future

I therefore suggest we put together a brief outline of what HOL currently does and will continue to do for the next year and how much it will actually cost. We could then ask local worthies if they are willing to contribute. I would advocate asking rich people as they can afford it.

HOL will be obliged to do nothing other than deliver what it has agreed to deliver (ie what we are already doing). A small thank you somewhere on the homepage would appropriate.

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on September 10, 2008 at 23:42

I would really much rather it ran on magic and we had nobody to "thank". I'm all up for anonymous paypal, then the rich can give us all they want.

Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on September 11, 2008 at 9:38

Thanks Liz I will email and post the next meeting time later today,

I am somewhat disturbed this morning about this thread and indeed this site.

HOL Navigators was set up some time ago and open to all to join and to attend meetings, should they want to.

Funding has been on the agenda for some while and was discussed on a thread here before this one. For those who attended last months meeting, this was discussed for the whole duration of the meeting. There were lots of angles and configurations but a decision had to be made based on who attended and the information obtained via previous discussions on and off line.

HOL has to be sustainable and the trial advertising route was democratically voted in for a period of six months when it will then be evaluated and discussed again. We also discussed a handful of local businesses, which could be mutually beneficial. We also discussed other revenue streams, which we would research and not rule out after this trial period was up.

I have to question to validity of HOL if people cannot accept democratic decisions. If we cannot decide on issues like this how can HOL be a force in community change?

I also have to question whether I can personally be bothered if after lengthy discussions people take their ball home because they didn’t accept the majority at that point in time with any respect for the process.

Is a line going to be drawn under this and we can evaluate after the trial period whether it was a success or whether we should chose other funding options or is it about who shouts loudest?

Permalink Reply by Takaokagiejin on September 11, 2008 at 11:20

But if I wasn't able to attend the meeting am I not allowed to comment?

I agree that decisions have to be taken and stuck to otherwise we will never get anywhere (I have just returned from the TUC conference and blimey was that a painful experience so I really do mean what I say)

Perhaps it would be good, as I have previously suggested, to agree a simple "terms of reference" for how decisions are made so that we can all be clear and then move on with actually getting stuff done

Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on September 11, 2008 at 11:42

Of course you can, I wasn’t insinuating you couldn’t, and anyone else can comment and attend meetings when they desire. I think the fact that all these meetings are open for everyone is a positive for this site. Not all local groups offer such an open door policy for all to get involved in the decision making process.

Unfortunately every decision regarding this site cannot be put to all thousand members, its logistically impossible. This particular point has been dealt with using a democratic process and this forum as will I assume, future decisions including reassessing advertising in six months.

Not the best example, but am I correct in thinking if your MP is not in parliament they cannot vote on particular issues. There has to be some logical conclusion, which enables HOL to make decisions.

HOL is still young and the site is learning along the way the best ways to go about things but there has to be some criteria to vote, i.e. being there and listening to the pros and cons. The forum is an indicator on what people’s views are but it’s not an accurate vote such is the nature of forums and people on them

Permalink Reply by matt on September 11, 2008 at 11:40

Birdy, I completely understand where you're coming from. Me personally, I'm happy to see advertising by local businesses ... as long as they're not those ads that flash on & off incessently!

Yes it probably is a little naughty to bring this discussion up after the meeting if a 'democratic' decision was made. I don't know as I was unable to attend. As far as participation in decisions about the site is concerned I'm not sure wider membership received clear invitation but I could be wrong on this. That's just the tiny bit of feedback I've had.

So it may look to some that 7 people at a meeting making decisions for 900 looks a little thin on the ground (or at the pub). Yes there are reasons why off-line meetings have been held such as client (advertiser) confidentially but, a lot of discussion can be had here on-line and I think that's correct. I've found this discussion very interesting and useful.

To sum up, what's interesting about the HoL approach is it's trying to mesh on-line into off-line. Most organisations do it the other way around with relationships and decision making processes already clearly established. So this is going to be a challenge for HoL over the coming months.

Let's go with the advertising for 6 months as you say and continue to look at other methods of finance and operation over the coming year. :)

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on September 11, 2008 at 20:13

I was the only dissenter at the meeting. 4 were in favour of accepting advertising and 2 did not vote. I don't think my admittedly crackpot views got a sympathetic hearing and in the days after the meeting decided to post something about it. This is not a vote, this is not a survey, it's just a discussion.

I'm really sorry that you're questioning whether or not you can be bothered. You Hugh and Liz are the backbone of this site and if we're talking about sustainability as a reason for accepting advertising then I think that should be discussed first. We will always find the money.

I understand how you feel and we both think we're doing the right thing.

Thanks for participating in this discussion.

Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on September 11, 2008 at 21:07

You are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone

We have discussed it at that meeting and prior to it, the vote (that you willingly took part in) was taken and a trial will take place.

It's disappointing that you cannot accept the democratic decision gracefully.

I only hope that when a decision goes against my personal wish, I accept the will of the vote.

As far as this is concerned I accept what has been decided and look forward to future discussions about this in six months. There’s nothing more to add.

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