Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The Hell that is Wood Green
Yesterday, I had the misfortune to find myself in the shopping mall. Walking out the big automatic doors and into the crowd of Star Wars pub extras who were smoking, spitting and squabbling on the footpath I witnessed what for me sums up the whole carbuncle on the arse of Haringey that is Wood Green High Road. One of the characters stormed through the crowd with his status dog in tow. I was reflecting on the fact that ‘status’ dogs don't seem to work (as the people who have them only ever seem to be what everyone else in society would consider low status). Everything suddenly went quiet except the ever present sirens. The status dog had stopped and released its copious bowels all over the footpath. It was like turning on the light in an HMO; the cockroaches screamed and scattered. The dog owner laughed and walked on. It was probably one of the most disgusting things I have seen or smelt in London. Eventually the crowd returned and watched the next horde trample the mess up and down the road. There was no-one to turn to, no-one to clean up and more importantly no-one with the authority to challenge and/or shoot the dog owner. Things just returned to normal.
The whole experience made me think how the council, local police and traders believe that we're all animals if they are happy for us to have to deal with this every time we go to the High Road. It's easy enough for me to hop on a bus and head off to Crouch End or Islington or even Enfield to shop but if you're older or disabled and have trouble getting around or not enough money for the bus it must be pretty grim to face it every day. Imagine how the standard little old lady dreads heading out into the crowds, litter, phlegm, smoke and anti-social behaviour of Wood Green every morning to get the milk.
Short of manning water cannons at each end of the High Road and employing some mercenaries with batons to control the crowds, I don’t know what can be done. Are there any clever ‘nudges’ or interventions that could improve Wood Green? Is it a matter of tarting the place up and hoping that the crowds respect their new surroundings? Is it signage to remind, and in many instances educate, people that spitting, littering and barging into other people is just not the done thing? Or do we just give up, bulldoze the lot and install a waterhole in the middle and let the law of the jungle and the status dog owners prevail?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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About one in 4 of the flats are owned Sharon, pretty average for a council block in London I would imagine. Many of them are specially adapted or designated as sheltered accommodation. I managed O'Donnell and Foundling Courts which make up the Brunswick Centre and also the Cromer Street estate on the other side of Judd Street in the late 80s and early 90s. The Brunswick was crime ridden and scary. A huge investment was made in it and it's lively and well used from early in the morning until late in the evening. Don't know what proportion of the locals use the shops there but before the works most of the units were empty anyway because no one wanted to go there.
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Permalink Reply by Sharon on
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Thanks Michael, Its pleasant shopping and perusing there but theres no place like home
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Permalink Reply by Tammy Palmer on
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I also work right near the Brunswick centre - it houses a lot of older people who have lived there for years and they tell us (I work for a charity) that they love the shopping area and love watching all the people and how vibrant and busy it is. The Waitrose there is very active in the community and I always see community police officers walking around and I think they might be local wardens too, they have made such an effort to make to keep the area free of litter and deal with any trouble, the older people I talk to enjoy living there and being part of the community, Michael is right in sayingthe whole area id actually very deprived, there are issues with gangs and muggings - a few of our staff have been mugged for phones over the last 2 years but I have never seen any real trouble in the Brunswick centre itself
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I suppose it begs the question, if a shopping centre can be made to work in an area like Kings Cross, why not Wood Green?
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Permalink Reply by Robert Pike on
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Is it just a question of perception and fashion. Barbican, Brunswick, Trellick Tower are now perceived as sexy and reflect regenerated or evolving pockets of London. Even Park Hill in Sheffield has gone through identity change with a touch of the Urban Splash-ification. So what is the common theme? Is it better long term investment and whole life management that helps? Private money? Better tenants or re-engagement of existing occupants? Surely Waitrose is not the only factor to raising an areas profile.
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Exactly, and maybe a few high end shops in WG could work, didnt you say its the 2nd busiest High St after Oxford St after all?
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Permalink Reply by Gordon T on
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Well, everyone their own urban planner, but I'd offer that The Brunswick, recent investment apart, has the advantages that it's pedestrianized, light and airy. The Shopping City area of Wood Green is arguably none of these, nor can it be made so, short of a rebuild.
Everyone their own alternative historian, too: I wonder how Wood Green would have developed if Shopping City had not been built. Would it be similar to Tottenham High Road in retail and socio-economic terms, with (to my eye) no focal point? Would the current chain stores (e.g. M&S, BHS) have drifted away long ago?
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It was too many decades ago that WG High Road had a branch of Habitat.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Michael, pondering your posts here, Zena and I went for another stroll in Marchmont Street and spent a while among the Brunswick shops.
I am not contradicting your statistics - which I haven't had time to look up - nor am I challenging your many years experience working in the area. But with our outsiders' eyes and ears, it seems improbable, to say the least, to choose this as the model or "end-state" for Wood Green. (Assuming there was broad consensus among Wood Greenians that this was desirable.)
But since you've posed the question, can I suggest that based on your personal knowledge and up-to-date information, you could come up with an informed, detailed and very persuasive list of factors about why "The Brunswick" may not be an entirely helpful or feasible model.
Not least because of the proximity of a number of upscale commercial businesses. major institutions (including London University colleges and the British Museum) and beautiful Georgian houses and squares. All within easy walking distance of this central Bloomsbury location.
I'm not insisting you're wrong. Simply suggesting that your argument is open to some heavy balancing factors which point another way.
(Almost but not quite ending my stint as Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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FPR, please re-read what Michael Anderson wrote about "the demographic" and his own working experience in that area.
I recommend trying a more anthropological approach. Personally I find it leads to interesting and helpful surprises.
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I think Alan it's about looking at the area 10 years ago and now. The area was depressed with, at one point, 70% of the shop units empty. The area may well be the home to some big institutions but they didn't spend their money there. They jumped on the tube and headed to Oxford Circus.
The redevelopment did take advantage of the fact the these institutions and tourists were already in the area but surely a Wood Green plan can take advantage of the fact that it is the second busiest shopping street after Oxford Street. The business is there and ready to build on.
As a footnote, some of the posts on this thread have expressed the concern that Wood Green moving up market mean that local people lose out. The Brunswick centre effect has brought more people than ever to Marchmont Street and revitalised the shops there. I think that almost every one of them is an independent and not part of a chain. -
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Holloway Road has a Waitrose, Sainbury, Argos and had a branch a Peacock until it went bust. Mixed retail can work. The worst outcome would be a Westfield where people are sealed into a shopping centre the moment they come out of the station. Locals don't benefit at all.
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