Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Creating a studio in the newly excavated basement of 41 Umfreville Road
Hi all,
I am not an expert in planning matters, but I have found the following from Haringey's own website, which would show that (a) no planning permission can be granted for an extension (in this case into the basement) for the purpose of creating a new flat; and (b) Harringay Ladder is a restricted conversion area, which presumably means that generally no permission will be given for new conversions.
The Council itself states that the reasons for making the Ladder a restricted area are (a) increase pressure on parking and traffic. We already endure all the traffic related to Green Lances shopping area, and the traffic that uses our road as a shortcut between Green Lanes and Wightman Road. (b) loss of family homes. Presumably, if the basement has been excavated it should be used to make the ground floor flat bigger and provide a flat for a small family, rather than provide two small properties which would not be suitable for families; (c) increased pressure on services (such as transport). (d) I would add to that additional short term tenants, with the prospect of more people moving in and out the apartments, removals, tenants not regarding the units as their permanent home and thus not caring for the community, streets, gardens, etc (e) filling the front garden with wheelie bins, rather than plants. The house already seem to have two other flats. A third flat would mean 3 general waste bins plus 3 recycling bins, i.e. 6 bins for a small front garden.
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/spg_3a_-_density_dwelling_mix_floorspace...
Supplementary Planning Guidance (SPG)
Residential Standards
SPG 3a Density, Dwelling Mix, Floorspace
Minima, Conversions, Extensions and
Lifetime Homes (Adopted 2006)
Table 3: Dwelling Mix for Conversions
Net Internal Area of Number of Flat Types
the Property
Expected Optional
120m² - 129m² 1 unit of at least 3
habitable rooms (i.e. two
bedroom 3/4 person flat)
130m² - 149m² 1 unit of at least 3
habitable rooms for 4
persons (i.e. two
bedroom 4 person flat)
and one or more units of at least 2 habitable
rooms (i.e. one bedroom 2 person flat)
5. CONVERSIONS
A. Minimum size of property suitable for conversion
A.1. Policy HSG1 recommends that the minimum that the minimum size of
properties suitable for conversion must have an existing floor area of
120m2 (1291ft2) or more and must have 5 habitable rooms or more.
A.2. To measure internal floor area, exclude outside walls but include inside
walls, partitions, cupboards and chimney breasts and take into account
only floorspace with an existing headroom of 2.3m (7.5ft) minimum.
B. Restricted Conversion Areas
B.1. The Council has identified the following areas as being subject to
extreme parking pressure and a reduction in the number of family
houses. (see attached maps)
- • The Miltons: area to north east side of Archway Road
- • Archway Road: area to the south west side of Archway Road.
- • Harringay Ladder: Green Lanes to Wightman Road.
- • Stroud Green: area bounded by Stroud Green Road, Stapleton Hall
Road, Florence Road and Woodstock Road.
- • Muswell Hill: roads near centre.
- • Bruce Grove Ward
- • Crouch End: roads near centre
- • West Green Road
- • Myddleton Road
Extensions
C.1. The conversion of properties into self-contained flats should ideally be
carried out within the existing building without the need for any
extensions.
C.2. In the following cases extensions to properties are unlikely to be
granted:
- • Where a whole new flat /s or habitable room/s will be created
- • Simultaneous extensions to the roofspace and basement
- • Rear extensions where the garden will be reduced to 75m2 for
shared gardens or 50m2 where one flat has sole use
- • Where a property has 5 or fewer habitable rooms or has a floor area
less than 120m2
- • If the extension is above ground floor level
- • Where the extension would result in a loss of light or outlook to
adjoining properties.
C.3. Extensions are generally only acceptable where they are designed to
improve otherwise sub-standard facilities of an existing flat, such as to
enable a separate bathroom to be provided or to make the kitchen
bigger, provided that it does not harm the neighbours amenity. (See
also the “Context” section of SPG 1a: Design Guidance and also SPG
3b: Privacy/Overlooking, Aspect/Outlook and Daylight/Sunlight).
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/housing-3.pdf
HSG11: RESTRICTED CONVERSION AREAS
Permission will not be granted for conversions in the following
areas:
a) The Miltons: Area to North East side of Archway Road;
b) Archway Road: Area to the South West Side of Archway
Road;
c) Harringay Ladder: Green Lanes to Wightman Road;
d) Stroud Green: Area bounded by Stroud Green Road,
Stapleton Hall Road, Florence Road and Woodstock Road;
e) Muswell Hill: Roads near centre
f) Bruce Grove Ward
g) Myddleton Road, Wood Green
h) West Green Road
i) Crouch End: Roads near centre or
j) streets where conversions and/or HMO already equal 20%
of the properties (see policy HSG6).
4.40 There are areas in the borough where over the years many
properties have been converted from single dwellings into a large
number of flats. Where many conversions happen in one area it can
result in problems such as a significant increase in on street parking
and a loss of family housing.
4.41 It is considered that in the areas mentioned above the majority of
properties have been converted into flats and are now experiencing
problems of extreme parking pressure and a significant adverse
effect on residential amenity. Any additional increase in on street
parking would be detrimental to the effective operation of bus
services. Therefore conversions will usually be resisted in these
areas as they have already reached their capacity for conversions.
The restricted conversion areas are identified in SPG3a Density,
Dwelling Mix, Floorspace Minima, Conversions, Extensions and Dwelling Mix, Floorspace Minima, Conversions, Extensions and
Lifetime Homes.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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Zena. Thanks again for this. I have contacted Troy (by email as I do not have a phone number).
I also asked about number 53 Pemberton that looks to be mid something- neighbours indicated they think it is being converted to flats, and had previously requested to be come an HMO. There is also apparently talk of digging the basement out. I flagged it and I will see what comes back- I should say I tried to find what (if any) historic planning application or decision had been made, but the web site (http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/housing_and_planning/planning-main...) is very clunky and a search is impossible. It may be legit but it is difficult to find out either way....
Anyway, enjoy the pics.
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Permalink Reply by Stuart on
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Justin
53 Pemberton got a Certificate of Lawfulness for the conversion to 3 flats back in 2005. Decision here. If you go to the "View Applications" option on the Haringey Planning portal, and enter the address, it brings up all the activitiy relating to this property. So looks like the horse has long bolted on this conversion unfortunately.
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Thanks- I just had that confirmed as the relevant officer (Troy) came back to me very quickly indeed. I was looking in the wrong place on the web site- as one who is not versed in such things.
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Permalink Reply by Geoff on
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Have you and other nearby residents reported this breach to Haringey Enforcement and Planning depts? If not, nothing will happen.
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That sounds rather naive and just the sort of response that these developers hope for - you have to act quickly to get these kinds of works inspected and on to the Haringey Council record, then when it turns out not to be what everybody wanted to think was going on, there is a chain of communications and logged responses. There are far too many cases on the Ladder of works being carried out that are breaches which are unopposed by residents who prefer not to act, and/or are supported by, as it has turned out in some cases, bogus records, and they get away with it. You have to get in to the real world - and tackle these situations head on. Don't believe what you are told!
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Permalink Reply by Karen Jonsson on
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I wasn't sure who I should be replying to on this thread, or in fact which thread I should write on as it seems there are so many discussing no. 5 Pemberton Road. I was told to read them by a friend of mine as I am not a regular user of this website, having only recently signed up because I just bought a house in the area - no. 5 Pemberton actually. Reading through these posts I have been astounded by some of the things that have been said. I am by no means a developer - I am a young, new mother (my baby boy Rory is just 4 months old). It is to be a family home, though I will be needing to rent out a few of the rooms in order to pay off the mortgage. Once Rory is older and I am able to work again (and cover the mortgage myself), my partner Nick and I will take the whole house for our little family. I have to say these posts have really upset me and I am not feeling at all welcome in an area that is soon to become my home...
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Permalink Reply by L F T Snowflake on
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Well perhaps I can reply, seeing as how I 'blew the whistle' no 5 in the first place.
I lived at No 5 in the front room on the ground floor for two years. I have to say they were the two happiest years I have ever spent living in any place anywhere. This was despite the fact that the house was ramshackle and the electrics (designed by Fred Flint stone) were of such a state that I used to come home from work every night expecting to find the place burnt to the ground.
Anna Eftymiou, our landlady was eccentric to say the least. Greek Cypriot, she understood little English, but was fluent in Anglo Saxon! Among her many eccentricities was this; you'd come back from a nice Sunday lunch at the Ladder or the Salisbury only to find that for no apparent reason, she had cooked you a lunch (despite the fact that meals were not included in the rent) and she would not take no for an answer as she piled your plate ever higher with her plain Greek food. And heaven help you if you cooked anything containing garlic. She always confused the smell of garlic with a gas leak and would run round the house in a total panic screaming and shouting at the top of her voice! And of course there was the obligatory trips to Maqsood's with a £20.00 note every day or so to get her 60 Dunhills! But with us tenants she was as honest as the day was long and NEVER intruded into your life. We were incredibly protective of her.
When she became ill, it fell upon us, the tenants to look after her to the point that when she died, the hospice even approached me to organise the funeral. Fortunately, her UK family appeared at the right time to take that awful burden off my shoulders. But for many months myself and the rest of the tenants (including a lovely man with special needs who lived in the big back room that backs onto the garden), anxiously awaited our fate. It was a heartbreaking moment when I had to move out.
Believe me, despite the impression you have, Pemberton Road is very welcoming. If ever my six numbers came up, I would move back there like a shot! In fact, I am very glad to hear you are thinking of renting out rooms, because if the back room in the basement leading out on the garden came up I would be VERY interested. I always wanted to tackle the garden, but dear Anna would never let me, insisting instead on doing silly things like trying to cut the trees down with a carpenters saw - an episode that saw her carted off to hospital with a broken hip.
So if you want a lodger who is also interested in growing fruit and veg, do let me know. It would also give me the chance to re acquaint myself with your lovely neighbours Michael and David who live directly behind you. And with a 35 year career as a teacher and youth worker behind me, I am pretty good with kids too.
I popped into no 5 to pick up mail a few weeks ago and that was when I heard from your builders that the place was being turned into two flats - something I reported on here. The biggest fear for all the residents on the Ladder is that big houses like that are turned into HMO's (houses in multiple occupation). This means that a house for a family, suddenly has loads of people living in it, with the resultant pressure on services. I am therefore glad, on behalf of the residents, to hear that your plans are not as drastic as first thought.
We were due to have a fireworks party this evening in the street (we have a few street parties there and lots of former residents attend - another good sign about what the street is really like), but the weather put it off.
I think Justin has organised another play street on the 17th November. That is when the Street is closed off to allow the many children to play there. Do please come along to that, because I know you will be made very welcome.
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