West Green Pub Closed Down

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by LSquared on July 25, 2013 at 21:44

You said

"I guess I'm happier in an area that stays within the comfort zone of people who will live here consistently than in an area which goes up and down depending on when more affluent people move in and out. 

I can take the odd urinater, smashed bottle or drug dealer. None of these things has a detrimental affect on the life of most of the residents. We just want a place we can afford to live and decent schools. Which Haringey has."

and later "What we would like and area to be and what it is are very different"

You seem to be saying that people who live here like the area just as it is (their "comfort zone"), that the only way to have a nicer environment is to more away, that there is no point in trying to take more care of our area, and that you would not welcome it.

If that is not your point that is great, but then why did you disagree with the people saying they'd like to see the streets cleaned up? No one has suggested they want to move away or that low income people need to be moved away, just that they want some attention paid to the grimier aspects of our area.

You seemed to disagree  - that's what confused me.

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Permalink Reply by Miss Richards on July 25, 2013 at 22:25

In no manner did I say I did not want the streets cleaned up. As far as I can tell they are.  I can take the good with the bad but some people, the affluent, tend not to like the bad and move. They just don't announce it. Fact. I've seen it. It makes a difference. That was my point. 

I don't know where in my comments you get " ...low income people need to be moved away". As a low-income local I would have something to say about that. 

There are community groups in the WG area doing sterling work with the parks and local events and they have made a massive difference; people do take care of the area. 

The first comment was about a pub being closed with the commenter being happy about that. Just because it was not his type of place and there were some dodgy characters. WGR is not in disgusting state and the shops are not neglected. If GavK had commented on the two Cashconverter type shops that opened up recently, which are blight and should be closed down, he would have had a point. 

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Permalink Reply by easysteve on July 26, 2013 at 10:18

I lived in Crouch End for many years and saw the rise (and the fall) of a once non-fashionable area. While i was there during the later years I witnessed street urination, drug use and dealing on a massive scale, drunkenness and violence, some times all in the same night.  So I moved to Green Lanes.  Although I still witness all of the above on occasion I know where i prefer to live.  I am 61 and have lived in London all my life and have seen areas change sometimes for the better and sometimes not. Hoxton, Shoreditch, Camden and Brixton to name but a few.  Sometimes we tolerate the good, the bad and the ugly until things improve then when they do it wont be the green lanes we know and love.......Dodgy pubs have always existed, as have dodgy people and they all need somewhere to go and it keeps them out of the 'nice' places.  After all you wouldn't want dodgy people sharing your space in Blend or Jam in the Jar, would you?............have a nice day   Ps How long does it take to lay paving slabs? (Just wondering)

Permalink Reply by Tilly on July 25, 2013 at 16:47

I walked past the pub today and was just wondering what would become of the building. There's a cafe/bar being refurbished on the other side of the road as well.

A costa coffee? I'd not heard about that. Do you think it will attact much business?

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Permalink Reply by Kerry-Ann Goode on July 25, 2013 at 19:29

I'd say it will. Look how busy the ones in Wood Green are.

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Permalink Reply by James R Grinter on July 26, 2013 at 13:37

In a decent world, it'd be taken on by people competent to run a successful pub.

So I expect it'll be sold to developers, and turned into cramped, overpriced flats and a Tesco Express on the ground floor.

Which would be a shame, it always looked like it was a structurally sound building and the pubs in Tottenham are now few and far between.

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Permalink Reply by JJ B on July 27, 2013 at 19:45

WE NEED pubs to remain as PUBS. Even you brits should know that the pub is the maintsaty of the social life in the neighbourhood - I am a foreigner! In fact it is one of the "problems" we have in Tottenham Green Seven Sisters - where do you invite your friends to come and have a drink if you take them to the occasional good event at Bernie Grant AC or after a social event in the area? It would be a pity if the community lost another pub. We neeed the WG Pub to reopen as a good general allrounder that can cater for all.
The arrrival of Costa coffee and Sainsbury's shows that the area can be improved without displacing local independent shops. The Council has finally pulled its fingers out of its rear end and the Town Centre Manager has started some good but very long overdue improvements. However Haringey Council is still pursuing this ludicrous policy of bringing in retail chains when that model has moved on and is dying. They are spouting a lot of developer rhetoric and they will end up destroying the good Tottenham has to offer (it's Unique Selling Points in marketing speak) along with the bad because they have no faith in locals and more faith in big developers who can provide turn key demolish and rebuild large scale <> - such an awful word.
You cannot regenerate people. What people want is IMPROVEMENT to the very, very, neglected public realm and public services that will NEVER BE PROVIDED by the private sector!
It is a pity that Haringey's Councillor Strickland is fabricating propaganda to say that they are working with the residents' groups and that smash and build <> is what people want. His is just a tick box exercise so that he can achieve his KPI's. The collateral damage -displacement of the real human problems so that someone else can deal with them - is just so cynical.
In fact this has started a backlash fro the very community that it is supposed to help. Look at teh recent articles in the local press where businesses taht ahev been operating in North Tottenahm are now iopenly opposing the Council's plans for "gentrification".
The Council needs to listen. The couoncil needs to work WITH the people. the longer teerm vision and result is MORE IMPORTANT than the short term tick box exercises.

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Permalink Reply by LSquared on July 28, 2013 at 0:03

I just don't think there is enough demand round here to keep many pubs open. Without a big "going out" market like Stokie, you need a core of regulars who will drink there every evening, and that's pretty expensive to do.

What is the Fountain like these days?

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Permalink Reply by JJ B on July 28, 2013 at 1:35

A chicken shop is a legitimate business that has its clients in the area. Whilst I do not use them you cannot just decide to demolish businesses that have been operating here for over 25 years. This will happen organically if you create the right conditions.
I must say that I wouldn't want to live near Green Lanes because I finfd the concentration of Turkish restaurants overbearing. I wouldn't want that on TottenahmHigh Rd. A good MIX of differently priced restaurants reflecting the diverse community we haev here would be great and would fulfill the Council's goal of making it place that people come to.
In csome rspects the Costa will present a chalenge to those cafes already opoerating on the High rd around Seven Siters in that it will drain thos ewho are conforted by the generic brands. I wouldn't want to live on Oxford Street either. After all when I want to shop I get on the tube and got there, but only occasionally!

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Permalink Reply by James R Grinter on July 29, 2013 at 9:28

I too lament the number of fried chicken shops, but... unless they're a loss-making front (*), the fact that they remain in business suggests that there is a demand for them.

All the chip shops that Tottenham used to have were slowly replaced with .. fried chicken shops (or, in a couple of cases, are still hanging in there, by selling fried chicken too.)

(* KFC gave up their high road spot a few years back, claiming it wasn't viable, and were immediately replaced by another. Maybe the KFC franchising costs were too high to compete with the others.)

The external costs of cleaning up the mess the customers leave afterwards.. well, that is something the council needs to handle through whatever routes they can. A hike in business rates?

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Permalink Reply by JJ B on July 28, 2013 at 1:53

That is a chicken and egg situation. The conditions have not been ripe for the adventurous avant-guard pub and cafe owners to move in. This will happen now if the present housing squeeze continues. But the council must not try to knock down or close the types of builidngs that usually house these businesses = traditional pub builidngs and high street shops. The council's planning department also need to enforce the exiting policies for shop fronts so that the place improves when businesses spend money to redo their shop fronts. At present the opposite is happening. New owners come in and destroy the period features and install horrible shop front, AGAINST POLICY, thus adding to the dishevelled lok of theplace. Over the years Haringey has been participating in the degeneration by not doing its job. And many peol make excuses for it.

If you go to Edmonton you can see first hand what ill conceived <> can lead to - alienating high-rise blocks, surrounding deserted, windswept, public open spaces with chain cafes and food shops which do not attract many people because the space is NOT ATTRACTIVE.
See on my flikr pages here = EDMONTON A.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjwilliam/7222859776/in/set-7215762978...

I DO NOT want to live in aplce like this!!!

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Permalink Reply by GavK on July 29, 2013 at 18:54

I think there are some good businesses on West Green Road. There are also some very run down shopfronts. I just wish the council and landlords could make an effort to make the road more attractive. 

A spruce up would give the area and local independent businesses a boost as people would come to WGR to shop instead of avoiding it. 

London has a general issue with Chicken and Gambling outlets not just WGR. These are create real social problems for general health and debt. 

I'd love it if The West Green Pub made some sort of effort to be welcoming (Which is what a local pub should be) but its not. Its blacked out windows and neon lit inside makes it appear more like a Shoreditch strip bar. (The Shutters are off now by the way). If they did surely it would be more successful ?

I hear a Costa is opening tomorrow which will actually mean somewhere comfortable to sit with a coffee, I wish someone independent had done it but hopefully this will mean the other shops get more business because of it. 

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