Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

I don't think the Council is listening at all

I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with the readiness of our council to include residents in local or borough wide policy priorities and plans.

Two local issues have led me here. The first is the Council's handling of the Green Lanes Corridor traffic spending and their response to a petition from the residents of Harringay about draft plans. I hope to deal with that soon on a separate post.

The second issue is the long drawn out issue of the banner on Harringay Bridge. There's been much talk - mainly dissatisfaction - on the site about Harringay Bridge. So when an email arrived last year from the Council announcing that the banners would be changed and seeking resident opinion, it seemed like residents might finally get a say.

 

Here's what the email said

The Green Lanes Strategy Group (GLSG) will soon be considering updating the current banners on the Green Lanes Bridge in Harringay. It was previously agreed by the GLSG that advertising spaces would be made available using the two small banners on both sides of the bridge to generate an annual income in order to be able to provide regular maintenance of the surrounding area of the bridge and to ensure that the banners are updated and kept free of graffiti. It was also agreed that local businesses would be given priority to use the advertising spaces available; the only take up at that time was from McDonalds. The contract with McDonalds is now coming to an end in September 2010. There are now sufficient funds generated through the advertisement to upgrade the banners and replace the small ones to their original display identifying the two wards. However in doing this, GLSG is mindful that no further advertising space will be made available and therefore, no further income will be generated to continue the future up keep of the surrounding area of the bridge and that of the banners.


In view of this, and before any final decisions are taken by the Green Lanes Strategy Group, community representatives on the GLSG are asked to consult with their respective community groups for their views regarding:

1. the possibility of continuing to use the bridge banners for advertising / sponsorship purposes from local businesses.

OR

2. to revert back to the original banners without any advertisements

The GLSG is due to meet in September and I look forward to receiving your comments by no later than the week beginning 30 August.
The banner design was put out to consultation. Please can you provide me with a full copy of the consultation results.

 

Believing the Council would want local opinion taken into account, Harringay Online ran a survey which looked at a broader set of issues on what locals would want on a new banner.  218 people responded. The survey results in full are attached to this post. Perhaps the most notable finding on the survey was on the matter of what will be written on the banner:

 

The only replies I received on this submission were:

1. From Nilgun Canver - Thanks Hugh. This is helpful. We’ve got time until Sept. Let’s see what the others will say. Pls. forward to Dasos for me.

2. From Dasos - Thanks again for sending me the outcome of your on line survey – what would also be helpful if you can send me the figures on the number of people in each category that contributed

3. On a side copy from the Gardens Residents Association - So far we have had 9 replies to the GRA consultation concerning the bridge do we want advertising or not on the banners. I will be sending the results to Dasos soon- so if you have not yet voted - please do let me know asap.

I am also attaching below the document I sent in reply to Dasos. message (in 2 above). In addition to providing the breakdown requested, it also summarises other responses received to the 'consultation'.

You can imagine therefore how surprised I was when my next communication on this was the following email from the Council last Monday:

The Chair (of The Green Lanes Strategy Group) has also asked me to attach for your information,  the final design for the Green Lanes Centre Bridge Banners (below). The colours of the banners are in the "Haringey Green" although this is not clear from the attached. The banners will be installed as soon as possible.




So on the same day I wrote again to the council, pretty much saying what I've said above; this time to Claire Kober (Leader) cc Nilgun Canver (Chair of Green Lanes Strategy Group & 'cabinet' member responsible). I concluded by saying:

 

Whilst I can understand that the Council might not want to base decisions on the results of a survey run by Harringay Online, I would expect at least that our survey would act as a flag to local opinion and the Council would run its own consultation. 90% of our survey respondents chose an option other than the one that has apparently been chosen now by the Council. However, as it stands now, no local opinion was sought by the Council on the issue of what legend will be used, despite the very clear signal our work showed about the importance of the issue.


We're trying very hard to work with the Council and support giving local people more say on their neighbourhood. The Council's response to this representation of local opinion leave me quite frankly gobsmacked. Surely this isn't worthy of Haringey.

(Yes. okay by I was miffed).

 

Two days later the following email arrived:

Dear All

Further to the email below I would like to clarify the last paragraph.

The final design of the 'Green Lanes Centre Bridge Banners' will be discussed and agreed at this meeting (under item 4 on the agenda).

We apologise for any confusion this may have caused.

Kind regards,

Judith Comrie

 

By way of an interesting footnote. someone forwarded me the following message left by the former Chair of the Gardens' Residents Group on their Yahoo Group (You have to be a Gardens' residents to join):

I know this has already been discussed, but I think the presence of a banner
on the bridge really degrades the area.

 

So this issue is clearly one that concerns all parts of Harringay, including informally represented as well as formally represented residents.

I guess I must take the Council at their word. Whilst the fact that they've only prepared and circulated one option leaves me more than a little sceptical, and whilst the design suggests that this is a sign for the traders and Green Lanes rather than the whole of Harringay, it may be that after all the Council is willing to find a way of at least making a decent attempt at reflecting residents' views in what is after all the gateway to our neighbourhood.

The meeting that will decide is on Thursday 17 March 2011 at 7.30 pm at Woodlands Park Nursery, Woodlands Road, London N15.

Tags for Forum Posts: consultation, glsg, harringay banner, harringay bridge

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Liz on March 15, 2011 at 12:14
I'm only invited to the Festival sub-committee, Matt.
Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 15, 2011 at 12:43

I was involved in the GLSG initially in 2009 for the festival and I've been included subsequently for the charter.

Both Liz and I are only invited for specific parts of the GLSG meetings. I don't think either they or we see ourselves as GLSG members.

For my part I don't see myself as representing HoL members. I'm there because I'm invited and I go in the hope that I can contribute to local initiatives and, in particular, that I can facilitate the residents' voice being heard in this body which is the key decision making one for Harringay. For example with the banner, I didn't assume I represented any constituency. What I did was to run a survey in an attempt to see to it that the broader local view was represented in local decision-making.

Permalink Reply by Stuart on March 15, 2011 at 12:11

Farcical and hugely frustrating. Yes, it's only a 'small' issue in the face of the monumental cuts but it's symptomatic of the way things get done in Harringay (and Haringey) (by the Council and the various bodies it liaises with). Makes you wonder why any resident would ever bother to respond to any council consultation (or get involved with resident's bodies).


One other point to note: the 'consultation' with residents which the council carried out did NOT ask for their views on the content of the banner according to the above exchange. It ONLY asked if they'd like local or corporate advertising on the banner. Big difference.

Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 15, 2011 at 12:35
You're right about what the council asked for, Bushy. The survey went wider since it was an opportunity for the residents to shape their local area and I couldn't think of any reason that the council wouldn't want to respond to that. Apparently I was wrong.
Permalink Reply by Alison P on March 15, 2011 at 13:00

Really frustrating, and a merry (or not so merry) dance indeed.

One thing that intrigues me - were the LCSP consulted at all about this?

Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 15, 2011 at 13:07
Yes. See my attachment to the original post. They offered responses from 9 residents. The GRA offered 12 responses.
Permalink Reply by WightmanPaul on March 15, 2011 at 17:47

There seems to be some confusion here.  This banner is about creating identity for the area to promote trade, it's for the traders.  What were you all thinking when you assumed anyone cares what you think.  The next election isn't for years.

 

On a more positive note, there's lots of work going on in preparation for the Green Lanes Food Festival in September.  The Council doesn't have the 15k that it spent last year but stalls will be pricier and the Council will pay for the traffic order closing the road.  Volunteers are being sought to contribute.

Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 15, 2011 at 18:28
Permalink Reply by John McMullan on March 16, 2011 at 0:33
Dear GRA, did you realise that your 'consultation' results, all twelve of them would be used to negate all the work with the survey? Did you know that the narrow 'advertising' aspect to your consultation would be just what the council wanted? Nice bollards, by the way.
Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 16, 2011 at 1:16
John, the GRA did what they were asked. I don't think we should be criticising them for that. The convenor of the GLSG and the decision maker is the Council. It is to them we should be looking for responsiveness to residents' wishes.
Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 21, 2011 at 12:43

The percentage of residents who responded to the survey was pretty similar to that of those who respond to council consultations. The idea of consultations is to ensure people's views are taken on board. We figure that whatever level of representation is good enough for a council representation ought to be good enough for a resident led-one - but by all means use it as a starting point. Use it as an indication then run a formal consultation.

The only reason the issue of delay and wasting money is an issue is because the council have failed to take residents' views into account for the 6 months since the survey was done. Why the sudden hurry now? If they'd listened six months ago and taken residents' views into account the question of delay wouldn't have arisen

Permalink Reply by Hugh on March 21, 2011 at 13:21
But,  interesting that the %ge of people who did think this issue worth consulting on was at about the same level as those who respond to most council consultations.

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