Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay Traffic meeting Outcome
Exactly three weeks ago today, I added a post on HoL pointing out the failure to convene a traffic meeting about Harringay's traffic. Just over a week later, a meeting seems to have been hurriedly arranged at rather short notice. I'm sure the two events were linked only by coincidence.
That meeting was last night at Alexandra House on Station Road in Wood Green. I was expecting to see a handful of the locals who normally turn up for these things. However, I was surprised to find a large room with about 50 - 100 people, all apparently eager to hear of progress.
We were graciously met at the building's reception desk by traffic boss, Cllr, Mike Hakata. Joking with Mike and looking about his person, I asked him where he was hiding his magic wand. His coy and slightly embarrassed reaction rather set the tone for the evening.
The meeting began with a long and very detailed explanation about why it had taken so long to get yesterday's meeting set up. The room was then given a clear message. In a nutshell, we were given the standard explanation of the past twenty years, that doing anything about traffic on the Ladder is too difficult and that all possibilities had been deemed impractical. Cllr Hakata didn't discount that one day the Council would magically find the solution that has been so stubbornly been evading them all these decades, but for the time being the focus was moving away from reducing traffic volume and on to safety - and away from Wightman and the Ladder rung roads and on to Green Lanes. More on that in just a minute.
Below is a copy of the slide Mike showed to explain the decision to abandon traffic calming on the Ladder.
There was plenty of disgruntled reaction to the slide but surprisingly little direct dissection of it. Having said that, whilst I think most people understand the issue raised in the first point and few have any appetite for clogging up Green Lanes, one person did make the point that once again the Ladder seems to have come at the end of the queue and the bowl is empty. The resident pointed out that with all other through routes already closed off by LTNs or other traffic control blockages, of course options are now limited because traffic is now so concentrated on Green Lanes and Wightman Road.
With regards to the second point on the slide, which essentially indicates technical reasons why filtering won't work on the Ladder, I asked Mike how the filtering currently works for the two school streets. He confirmed what I thought - APNR, but he hurried to add some explanation that now eludes me about why that couldn't work on the Ladder as a whole. I didn't want to get into a pointless disagreement with Mike about that, but as I understand it the LTNs at Hammersmith and Fulham work very effectively100% by APNR, where residents' cars are registered and are excepted from penalties. Clearly it would need more research, but having rechecked my facts this morning, here's what Google AI tells us:
How They Work
Enforcement: ANPR cameras record vehicle registration numbers. Drivers without valid permits who use restricted roads as shortcuts receive fines, which can range from £60 to £130.
Access: The schemes aim to stop out-of-borough traffic from cutting through residential streets, but they do not prevent access to any location within the borough.
Permits and Exemptions:Borough Residents can travel freely through the camera points if their vehicle is registered in the borough.
Visitors to residents can be registered for access using the RingGo app or website.
Carers can apply for free exemptions if they look after residents within the zone.
Some services like Uber have a technical solution to automatically exempt their drivers during a pickup or dropoff in the zone.
Mike swept away further concerns about traffic volumes with a reassurance that those same Ladder School Streets schemes that operate so successfully with APNR are lowering not only the traffic of the streets themselves, they are also having a knock-on effect on the neighbouring streets. The message seemed almost to be that we'll have to content ourselves with that for now.
As to Green Lanes, there are some plans. Mike was at pains to underline how very expensive these plans would be and how many millions each part of the plan would cost. There was no detail on exactly what the treatment would be, but the aim is to target the safety record of the road, which Mike explained is very much the worst in the borough. What we were able to find out is that the plans would see four (or was it five) junctions being somehow remodelled to improve safety. There was no slide to show the details, but from memory, going from North to South, I think those junctions were Turnpike Lane, Frobisher/Alfoxton, Colina Road and Endymion Road.
Quite a number of people suggested that the best solution for Harringay's Green Lanes, costing a fraction of the proposed plans, would be to remove parking from the road entirely, but the room was told that there are no immediate plans to do this. It seems, for some reason he didn't explain, that whilst reducing traffic volume is seen as the key to safety elsewhere in the borough, in Harringay magic roundabouts (or was it junctions) are the trick. Cllr Hakata also seemed unable to give any reassurance that the Green Lanes plans would ensure that traffic wasn't simply displaced on the the Ladder.
Perhaps, unsurprisingly, the meeting ended in quite a fractious mood with Mike Hakata appearing to be rather testily batting away an unwelcome swarm of autumn bees.
Was I or anyone else at all reassured by last night? No, I don't think so. If anything, I left with heightened concerns about the future for our neighbourhood. This in the year before local elections tells us that they see Harringay as in the bag already, I guess.
I conclude with the cartoon I used for my recent post on this issue and somewhat retract the apologies I gave at the end of that post for my uncharacteristic pessimism.
Tags for Forum Posts: traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Pacific_Flower
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Yes an unobstructed bus and cycle lane seems really sensible. Maybe it's something residents can get behind. Clear message too.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah
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When I first moved to Haringey I used to take the 341 bus to Green Lanes quite often. But the buses were so unreliable due to constantly getting stuck in traffic that I stopped. A bus lane would really change things and bring more people in, I'm sure of it. I don't know why the council and business owners don't see this.
During the pandemic I bought a bike, but I avoid Green Lanes unless I absolutely have to go there due to how dangerous it is. A couple of weeks ago I took a diversion on my way home to buy some things from Hello Harringay, but parking was very difficult. The nearest bike stand was full of Lime bikes. I wonder how many other people are put off shopping on Green Lanes due to how unpleasant and unsafe it is. If it was quieter it would be far more attractive to eat at the outside tables of the restaurants too.
Other councils are making further improvements to already good infrastructure they put in over a decade ago, making a measurable difference to the health and happiness of residents. Haringey council is stuck in he dark ages.
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Absolutely.
It would good to know and understand Cllr Mike Hakata's argument against removing parking and having a bike and bus lane.
If we can't reduce traffic volume we could at least make it a better experience for bus and cycle users. Also those parking are quite often doing crazy and dangerous u turns.
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Permalink Reply by Don
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Sarah: Part of the problem is that the LTNs have increased the amount of traffic on Green Lanes, causing even more congestion and pollution and making the street even less safe than before. Point 1 on Cllr Hakata’s slide above even acknowledges this as a reason for not including the Ladder in an LTN, implying is that it’s a policy that has actually made life worse for others.
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Permalink Reply by Pugface
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Don, I agree. The additional impact of more traffic is evident along Green lanes between St Ann's Road and West Green Road. Its was amazing (or deliberate) that when monitoring and trialing the LTNs the Council did not monitor traffic numbers on Green Lanes as a boundary road! Happy to evidence that if you like. Also, at a Council event back in 2019 when the LTNs were first being considered, I had an informal chat with one of the Council's traffic engineers. I asked them..."will the LTNs mean that it will be harder to do anything on the Ladder in the future regarding traffic on Green Lanes and the Ladder if there is LTN displacement of traffic into these areas"...to which they said "yes, it would". We are now enjoying that. (PS as a keen cyclist I support LTNs, but the situation on Green Lanes is worse now than it has ever been)
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Hi Andrew, hands up if I am wrong. I was going off the info provided in Appendix 16 of the Council Committee report. Please point me (private message) to the details counts and locations. There is so much info/data out there! Thanks.
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If you go onto the My Maps tab on this page:
https://my.haringey.gov.uk/Haringey.aspx
and then choose Streets For People monitoring there are a couple of Traffic counts ones which show the locations.
They did stop updating this (I don't know why, Mike Hakata just ignored emails asking about it) so there are also counts that were released through FOI requests as well.
It was very disappointing that they started off with all these intentions of openness and disclosing all the information and then just gave up on it and stonewalled any queries with no explanation.
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Permalink Reply by Dick Harris
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Thanks very much to Andrew for pointing to the published traffic count data. If the quality of the data is good, this should make it much easier to contribute in a way that relies on systematic measurement in addition to more anecdotal observations.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter
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Haringey council is stuck in the dark ages.
Unfortunately true.
Other Boroughs seem to surmount the technical difficulties that defeat Haringey's Highwaymen year after year. In transport policy, our Borough remains an island of savages of the status quo, alone in a sea of more civilised Boroughs.
The powerpoint slide at the top of this thread has the skid-marks of the HighwayMen all over it:
Filtering Wightman & Ladder Roads was carefully considered but discounted
Filtering was no more carefully considered by this intransigent council team than their previous considerations. It is the Highways Team that is more in need of discounting than is Filtering.
There is no evidence of thinking outside the box. That box is small to begin with. During the pandemic, this über hide-bound department offered this formal response to a question:
Their statement is an accurate reflection of the beliefs, wisdom and foresight of the Highwaymen. Including their regard for cycling.
The council Cabinet defer to their employees. The Cabinet have been persuaded this is a technical area in which they lack expertise and are always willing to be guided (told) by those they regard as professional engineers (whose blunt pro-car-traffic reputation may not make it easier for some of them to find employment in progressive Boroughs). The Highways Team need root and branch reform, but political leadership in this area is absent.
By contrast, the council’s Public Health function has far too little influence. If they have views about the respiratory impact of Haringey's laissez faire transport policy, then they may have been told to STAY IN YOUR LANE.
In effect, the Cabinet led by Cllr Ahmet has arbitrated that public health is less important than cash and car-use.
Non-Cabinet Councillors have no influence over transport policy. The Cabinet could have (limited) influence but chooses not to use it.
The Council Cabinet Member for Highways shows little-to-no personal interest, knowledge or experience in this area.
Rather than leading and directing her inflexible department, the current incumbent seems to see their role as acting as little more than a spokesperson for the Highways Team. In the past, the Highways Cab member has publicly heaped praised on these council employees for doing their job. In my view, her appointment as Cab Member for Highways has more to do with cronyism than competence.
The leader is into culture and identity-politics and in probably supportive of the (misguided) transport views of the shops lining Green Lanes who pay Business Rates and who may donate to the local Ruling Party.
Their money talks, residents walk.
The Prime Minister says he is about delivering change (whatever that means) but—in respect of local transport policy—his local Leader and representative may deliver no more than tinkering at the margins.
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Yes. Cyclists and other road-users should always seize their opportunity for safer roads during pandemics. Is this not proof that the HighwayMen can think outside the box?!
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